Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer???

   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer??? #1  

jobguy

Silver Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
244
Location
MN
Tractor
Bobcat CT120
I have a CT120 Bobcat tractor with remote hydraulics mounted behind the seat. I also have a dump trailer with a 12 volt hydraulic pump and fluid tank which do not work. How do I determine if there is enough fluid in the tractor reservoir to operate the dump trailer? Also the dump trailer has cheap fluid in it so I will need to flush that out somehow but with what? Any help is appreciated.
 
Last edited:
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer??? #2  
My dump trailer only uses a few quarts to dump all the way up{50degrees}. As far as flushing out the cylinder just colapse the cylinder{if it's gravity down}. That way all the fluid goes back into the holding tank on the eletric unit.
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer??? #3  
You will be fine running it off the tractor-that tanks are big on CUT's. When the cylinder is collapsed there is very little fluid in it...should be no problem with contamination.
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer???
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Thanks: Another question.
The dump trailer only has one hose to it. When I hook up to one of the auxiliary quick connects and raise the dump, when gravity lowers the dump and my control lever is in neutral will fluid flow back to the tractor? If not what will I have to do to make this work?
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer??? #5  
The ideal situation with a dump trailer is to have double-acting cylinders so that it is powered both up and down. That way you use almost no extra fluid from your sump because fluid from the unpressurized side of the cylinder flows back to the reservoir while the pressurized side is extending or retracting. In your situation with one hose attached to your remote valve, the trailer will lower when you move the remote lever opposite the dump position, but the open center system will be interrupted and the tractor's hydraulic system will go into relief bypass. This may/will put stress on your tractor's hydraulic pump by keeping the system in relief for the length of time your trailer takes to lower. A better situation would be to "T" off the line to your trailer and go through another valve (call it a lowering valve) that returns directly to the sump through your filler plug opening. That way you'll use your remote for power to the trailer and return will go out the "T", thru the added "lowering valve" and into your tractor's sump.
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer??? #6  
I am thinking, that with the pump set upon the tailer, maybe that was a double acting cylinder, and when the hyd pump pushed it up, a solenoid let the fluid out. and the other inlet fitting had a breather on it to let air in and out. If it is a double acting cylinder on the trailer, the rear remotes should work the cylinder just fine. After the trailer bed is raised and lowered a couple of times, recheck the tractor fluid.
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer???
  • Thread Starter
#7  
The dump cylinder is a single acting cylinder. There is a electric up/down switch you hold in your hand. I believe the switch controls a relief valve that allows fluid to return to the reservoir through the same hose that is used to raise the box.
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer???
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Thank you for the information.
Where can I find an explanation of the open center system?.
I only use the dump a few times a year. Considering the few times the dump gets used, will the system stress in relief bypass be significant enough to make a difference?
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer??? #9  
The dump cylinder is a single acting cylinder. There is a electric up/down switch you hold in your hand. I believe the switch controls a relief valve that allows fluid to return to the reservoir through the same hose that is used to raise the box.

If you are looking at a common commercial hyd power pack, the control
lever will close a switch in one direction, and pushed the other way, it
opens a check valve that allows the oil in the SA cylinder to return to the
tank.

That is the way my Fenner-Stone power pack works (stolen off a hyd
lift gate). My cyl is used in a SA manner with a filter vent on one port,
but it is a DA cylinder if that port is pressurized.
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer??? #10  
It will work but just make sure you do not run the cut's reservoir dry while lifting it. Watch it the first time.

To drain the system just take off all the hoses and drain it out. You will get 95% out.

Chris
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer??? #11  
Thank you for the information.
Where can I find an explanation of the open center system?.
I only use the dump a few times a year. Considering the few times the dump gets used, will the system stress in relief bypass be significant enough to make a difference?

You will be fine...Just keep an eye on the fluid level like the others have stated.
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer??? #12  
Thank you for the information.
Where can I find an explanation of the open center system?

Jobguy, you can find discussions of open-cneter systems througout this forum. That's how most of the hydraulic systems on our tractors work. Open-center systems allow the hydraulic pump to pump fluid at low pressure when hydraulics are not being used. The pump only needs to work under high pressure when you need to do work with the hydraulics.

In an open-center system on your tractor, you might have a 3-point hitch, FEL, and several remote valves. When you are not raising or lowering the 3PH or FEL, there is no need for hydraulic pressure. Therefore, the fluid flows from the pump out to the FEL valve and then to the 3PH system and finally the remote valves. At the last valve in line, the fluid loops around and returns to the reservoir. If you need power to the FEL, the joystick valve closes off the loop and directs pressure to the FEL's lift or curl circuit depending on the joystick position. While the FEL is moving, the 3PH and remote valves do not have fluid because their flow in the loop has been interrupted. When the FEL joystick is again returned to neutral, fluid is again allowed to make the complete loop through the 3PH and remotes. In the phrase "open-center," the word "center" could be replaced with the word "loop" and it might be more meaningful. When anything in the loop needs power, it closes off the loop and uses pressure to do the work.

While doing work, if the load/pressure on the hydraulics becomes too great, the system has a relief valve that will open and return fluid to the reservoir to protect the pump and hydraulic plumbing. In our tractors, this is normally at 2000 to 2500 psi. This valve is the first thing in the loop so that any function of the hydraulic system is bypassed when the system overloads.

In the case of your remotes, when your remote valve lever is in it's center position, fluid just flows through it and continues on in the loop. When you pull the handle, one of the remote QDs is connected to pressure and the other one is attached to return. Putting the remote lever in the opposite position swaps the functions in the QDs so that the side previously connected to pressure is now attached to return and vice versa.

So in your system with only one hose attached, you can send pressure to the trailer to lift it by having only one hose attached. When you move the remote lever to the opposite position, the QD you have attached will be connected to the return side to the reservoir allowing the trailer to lower, but the other side of the QD will be under high pressure because nothing is attached. That closed connection will cause your hydraulic system to go to its highest pressure and open the relief valve. The relief valve will stay open until the dump trailer lowers and you put the remote valve back into the center position to allow fluid to again start looping in the system. Therefore, before the relief valve opens, you will hear the engine go under load and remain under load until you return the remote to neutral.

Opening the relief valve occurs often when we use our FELs on our tractors, but we normally immediately back off and move the joystick so that the relief valve closes and pressure is return to normal. With your dump trailer, you will keep the system in relief for much longer and the relief valve could get hot and heat up your hydraulic fluid if you did this continually. With the intermittent use of your dump trailer, I don't think you will notice any problems, but you might be curious as to why your engine seems to be working hard when you are only lowering your trailer. Now you know.:)
 
   / Enough fluid in tractor for dump trailer???
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Jinman: Great information and very useful to me. I appreciate the time and thought that went into your reply.
 

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