Entry Level Welding Help

[CTyler]

$250 sounds like a deal to me. Even at $300 thats $1 an hour.

 

[PBMAX]

Power was a consideration for me so I went with the 120vac lincoln. Came with the gas setup so its there if I decide to use it..

The main reason was power and portability for me.
I have yet to use it on any thing that , as mentioned with more time and patiants, I could not manage. Again as others have stated I'm no welder and my work ain't Pretty. Just ask my neighbor (is a welder) he always chuckles but inspects the work for to show me what I need to look for and what to expect.... an advantage many don't have.....

But I just keep playing, he has a stick welder for the thick stuff or when I don't have all time to play. I tack and take it next door for the stick.....

Back to power, I did not whish to shell out the $ to install a 220 plug at the oposite end of the house and then be tied there.
So I went with the 120 unit and was pluging into a 15amp plug....bad idea not enough current draw. Got tired of tripping the breaker. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
So I finaly dug up the plug and wire and breaker (left over from my electric days)and ran a 20 amp ckt spent $30 plus sweat if bought new. took 30min... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

the 50amp breaker alone is $30 or more plus wire and conduit for a 220 connection and is tied there. Unless you have a generator that can handle it.... I think the 220 unit draws around 40 amps or so at peak. Ask my neighbor how long you can weld with stick on a 30amp breaker. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Tried to tell him... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Think I'll suprise him with the 50 amp breaker I found last weekend...

I will say I love it it's great to know if I cut off to much metal I can always put it back on... Try that with a 2x4 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[rockinmywaypa]

I will say I love it it's great to know if I cut off to much metal I
can always put it back on... Try that with a 2x4 ... A fellow I ran into liked woodworking, I said I liked welding, He said ..I can burn my mistakes, I couldn't argue with that.

 

[SPIKER]

Hi Guys:

I do ALOT of welding about 50% of my job is welding related. We use mostly MIG and all 220volt Miller 200s or 250s but we have other machines too (pretty much all miller though) and weld lots of Stick on anything pretty heavy it usuakky is sticked. our migs are great up to 3/8" mild steel and we have one that can spray arc at over 400 amps! at that range any exposed skin will be burnt to a crisp if it is with in about 20 feet of the arc! you don't even want to be in the room with out helmit on it is so bright!. Welding up flanges for pipe that are 4" wide and 1.5~2" thick in single passes!

anyhow first I woudl suggest you take the local JVS school's tech class. should be less expensive than a collage type class and you will get more hands on training. this will give you the information you need to decide WHAT type of home/farm welding you will be doing. so everyone of us can say this or that is better but the truth is YOU have to decide what is best for you're needs! If you plan on just repairing a broken / cracked box blade ones every couple years then a 110 volt $99.00 AC buzzbox type welder will work, if you plan on going into welding broken stuff for a living then you need a goor MIG and AC/DC stick/TIG combo welders. and if you planb on welding up a small sheet metal part on a car once a year or so then one of the cheap 110 vac wire feeds with out gas would work (but with gas is better) (the 110 wire feed welders have poor wire feeding from MY personal experiance but I'm spoiled with GREAT production type equipment!)

so get soem classes to SEE if you even NEED to buy a welder it may be something you totally HATE and wouldn't ever do again if you had to!

Mark M

 

[jimg]

If you have a tech-school in your area that teaches welding get some basic instruction BEFORE you buy any equipment. Welding is far more than joining metal. Also youre likely to get hands on w/ different brands and types of equipment too. Theres no way you could do that on your own (unless youre very wealthy).
The summer long class I took a few yrs ago started w/ gas welding and went thru stick vertical up and down and everything in between plus LOTS of safety. It was a lot to cover! We also talked about proper bead size and controlling distortion. It was money well spent in that it kept me from making expensive mistakes (in equipment purchase and use). It also gave me the knowledge to tackle various welding problems when working on my own projects.

 

[PBMAX]

"I can burn my mistakes".... Metel can burn to!!!, the question is how much wood would it take to get the fire hot enough.?. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif or To alteast melt it.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If you don't believe metal will burn grab some steel wool and a lighter... I suggest you don't hold it in your hand...the steel wool that is..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jimg]

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Actually you can get away w/ very little fuel if you add plenty of O2. This is how cutting torches work...a little heat and *lots* of O2.

 

[Lazy]

Hi
can you explain why you need lots of O2?

charlie

 

[CTyler]

Adding oxygen makes it hotter. The more you add the hotter it gets, to a point. The oxygen in basic terms is adding more air, more air = more burning.

 

[jimg]

Yes, a cutting torch uses a preheat flame to heat the steel above its kindling temp. Then the torch's O2 lever is activated which 'squirts' a stream of high pressure O2 onto the hot steel. By delivering a higher than normal level of O2 to the hot steel it burns. Theres not enough O2 in the atmosphere to cause this w/o a boost (which comes from your torch). While the steel is burning you're not consuming anymore fuel gas but ALOT more O2. Hence the stmt 'you need alot of O2'. I think the ratio is something like 8 (or more) to 1 O2 to fuel gas. Ive had my gas rig now for 3 yrs and have used nearly no acetylene but most of full large cylinder (80cf...I think) of O2.

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> Yes, a cutting torch uses a preheat flame to heat the steel above its kindling temp. Then the torch's O2 lever is activated which 'squirts' a stream of high pressure O2 onto the hot steel. By delivering a higher than normal level of O2 to the hot steel it burns. Theres not enough O2 in the atmosphere to cause this w/o a boost (which comes from your torch). While the steel is burning you're not consuming anymore fuel gas but ALOT more O2. Hence the stmt 'you need alot of O2'. I think the ratio is something like 8 (or more) to 1 O2 to fuel gas. Ive had my gas rig now for 3 yrs and have used nearly no acetylene but most of full large cylinder (80cf...I think) of O2.
</font>

Jimg the fact is once the cutting process has been started you could actually completely turn off the Acetylene and continue the cut with a steady hand using only the Oxygen cylinder. The Acetylene is only needed in the preheat process.

 

[jimg]

Yup, thats right...once started it will go on its own. Thanx for making that clear! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[BuckHunter69]

<font color="blue"> </font> once started it will go on its own

<font color="black"> </font> To a point only! On steel that is 7 ga to 1/4" you may be able to cut another 1/2" to 3/4" without preheat, but you would really lucky to get that far. On lighter guage metal, you wouldn't have enough baseline heat to continue cutting much, if any. On heavier metal...well, since we're talking entry level, it doesn't deserve much comment.

The point that I'm trying to make is that it can be done to a point, but it's not worth the frustration in attempting to do it just to save acetylene.

Before becoming a desk jockey, I welded production for 10 years (mostly 3/8" to 1/2" mild and stainless, manual, mig, and sub-arc). My dad owned a welding shop, so I also did my share of mainenance welding.

 

[BuckHunter69]

My 2 cents...

If you do decide that you need to learn to weld and own a welder, I would recommend a 240V Input 225A-250A AC welder that has high and low ranges. (It's been years since I bought mine, but I would guess ~$250)

I would suggest getting lots of practice on 11 ga (1/8") or 7 ga (3/16"). You won't have burn-through and you'll be able to see how well your penetration is. Practice on heavier metal requires lots of heat and a garage welder isn't made for that.

Low range (low frequency) is better for the beginner because it will be easier to hold the arc.

For all of you do-it-yourselfers, make note of the duty cycle of your welder and use you better judgement.

DC welders are MUCH better, but you get what you pay for.

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> To a point only! On steel that is 7 ga to 1/4" you may be able to cut another 1/2" to 3/4" without preheat, but you would really lucky to get that far. On lighter guage metal, you wouldn't have enough baseline heat to continue cutting much, if any. On heavier metal...well, since we're talking entry level, it doesn't deserve much comment.
</font>

Cutting steel with Oxygen only, no fuel. You can indeed take 1/4 inch plate steel, preheat it, start your cut, shut off the acetylene and with steady movement cut steel any length indefinitely. Don't take my word for it, look in the Welders Handbook that I mentioned in an earlier post on page 74. Lots of good useful info there.

 

[Lazy]

Hi
What other magic tricks are in that book.. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Charlie.

 

[PineRidge]

Charlie I have always considered something magical myself about permanently fastening two or more chunks of metal together using welding techniques. So if you like magic too, you'll have to get a copy for yourself to see. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jimg]

I dont think anyone was advocating that the torch be turned off after the burn starts. The point was that cutting consumes much more O2 than fuel and the reasons for that were stated. In that vein it was also mentioned that once the burn starts only O2 is needed to keep the burn going....all of which was correct. So, whats your point?

 

[jimg]

"I would suggest getting lots of practice on 11 ga (1/8") or 7 ga (3/16"). You won't have burn-through and you'll be able to see "
Hows that? Thinner stock is much easier to burn thru.

"Low range (low frequency) is better for the beginner because it will be easier to hold the arc."
Could you explain this more? What would 'low range' be and why would it make it easier for a beginner to hold an arc?

"For all of you do-it-yourselfers, make note of the duty cycle of your welder and use you better judgement."
What does this mean? Is it advice to get a machine w/ high duty cycle or not to exceed the spec'd duty cycle?

"DC welders are MUCH better, but you get what you pay for."
Really???? How so?

 

[BuckHunter69]

First off, I won't get into a p-match about O-A cutting without preheat...practice and theory are two different things...'nuf said.

"Hows that? Thinner stock is much easier to burn thru."
Selecting the proper heat (amperage and arc length both play a part) is something that is learned. To first begin welding on 12 ga and lighter steels will often result in burn through. Selecting the 11 ga and 7 ga as practice plates will give a lower likelihood of burn through while allowing you to see well your penetration is. By immediately selecting 1/4" and thicker steel as your first welding attempts will surely result in what we refer to as pigeon-s**t (the weld material sits on top of and not bonded to the base material).

"Could you explain this more? What would 'low range' be..."
The simple explanation for low range (frequency) being better is that the arc behaves more like DC.

"Is it advice to get a machine w/ high duty cycle..."
Concerning duty cycle...Garage welders are typically 30-50% duty cycle (at n amps). If you exceed the duty cycle for too long, you can damage you welder or worse. Fan cooled welders typically fare better than free air.

About DC welders...There are many more options (in rod selection and welding positions) available for DC. I don't know ANY professional (production or maintenance) welders who prefer AC over DC for mild steel (stick welding). DC is easier to use and produced better results (but the units aren't cheap. About the only practical AC welding rods are 6011 and 6013 (probably the most popular AC rod). You can weld 7024 with AC, but there are caveats (I won't go into details at this time).

With DC, you can use all of the 3 AC rods, plus you can use the n018, n027 type rods. n018 is probably the most versatile rods made, primarily because it is all position. I can weld with 7018 (3/32") with my low-frequency AC welder, but I've had more practice than most.