$eptic installation?

patrickg · Sep 25, 2002

Carl, I'll certainly try to not use a pump. After living on a sailboat for 9 years and spending time on various other boats, some of which were equipped with macerator pumps, I have a dread of having one. I'm still waiting for the recirculalting toilet in the motor home I keep in Baja to fail but so far it has been flawless. I'll try to adjust elevations andd slopes to not need one but if it comes to it, I will use one rather than forgo a toilet in the basement. Of course the pump will be in the basement and not subject to freezing. It would only pump waste up high enough so that it could gravity out with the other waste in the main drain, a couple vertical feet at most.

Glad I'm not being overcharged. I've got another bid coming. Might opt for the "Infiltrator" system instead of the gravel/leach system.

Patrick.

patrickg · Sep 25, 2002

BB_TX, So when it rains do they stay in the house and drink beer? Why should they have more waste to treat when it rains? Methinks maybe they have a leak that allows rainwater to enter their system, a not very uncommon problem which can overtax a system's throughput.

Patrick

patrickg · Sep 25, 2002

Chillimau, I didn't even begin to want to pay for underground primary from the section line to my site (through a creek to boot). CVEC came out and put in two poles with opposing dead men and ran overhead from the section line to just beside the gate in my cross fence nearest the site. They put up a new xformer and are standing by for me to contact them to proceed with the underground (secondary) wires from the pole to the site. It is 350 amp service with the computerized automatic meter reading capability that sends the data back to the company via the power lines. They will put the meter on a temp pole on site until there is a wall to mount it on. I have to pay something like a couple bucks per foot, parts and labor included, for them to trench and lay the secondary. No charge for anything else. Of course I buy the breaker panel which I haven't priced. I wonder what a 350 amp panel will cost. I added a sub panel in my shop (with breakers) for less than the cost of one breaker would cost to add to the old panel. Man I don't wan't to get anything that isn't fairly new design and in the mainstream for the 350 amp pannel.

Patrick

BB_TX · Sep 26, 2002

Patrick - I am guessing you are correct about ground water leaking into the system. This is the only aerobic septic system I have seen and really don't know how they work. But if it rains enough to really soak the ground, his system (he has 2 spray heads in the front yard) runs several times a day.

heehaw · Sep 26, 2002

wow, this has been an eye opener; the last system i know of being put in, was a 1k tank and probably 200 ft of lines for $1200; 8 years ago; but here in arkansas, unless they have changed the law recently, if you have over 10 acres, you don't have to have a perk test, or inspection; you can pretty much do what you want. oh yes i forgot, my folks had their system replaced 6 years ago; 500 gal tank and 200 ft of lines and it was $1200 also, 150 miles away from the other system i know of. rent you a back hoe and put the system in yourself;
heehaw

DFB · Sep 26, 2002

Gee, I wish my system intallation was so simple.

Since my VT property along with 5 others was created by breaking up a larger existing farm parcel it fell under state subdivision rules instead of the local good ol' boy town network. This meant having get a PE drawn design approved at state level. That cost $600 which also included a final inspection.

Turned out to be a dual pump/mound system with two 1000 gal. tanks one for a settling tank, the other as a pump chamber. All the sand/gravel had to pass a 3 screen sieve requirement too. Tested samples from 6 different local sandbeds. The closest bed was less than 1/2 mile from the house. One sample was even approved for use with the Mass. title V requirements which supposedly are quite strict. None satisfactorily passed the screen test for the sand/gravel mix I was required to use. I finally located what I needed from a gravel bed approx 35 mi from my site. Hired an independent hauler. Hauled in 350 yards with 3 tri-axle trucks over 2 days time. Gravel turned out to be aprox. half the total cost. Had to have the fill pushed and shaped with a dozer. All the laterals, 4 pipes @ 40' each were 2" PVC, capped on the ends and had to be hand drilled 2' oc with 3/8" dia holes.

350 yds of gravel, two 1000 gal tanks, 2 concrete riser rings along with a cover for pump chamber access, 2 Gould sewer pumps, 60' of sewer drain pipe, bulldozing, trenching, 2" stone, fabric, hand drilled pipes, control box with alarm, 80' of electrical conduit pipe, all covered by native soil from the site ran 8k total.

DFB

patrickg · Sep 26, 2002

Hey, Heehaw, It used to be pretty free wheeling here in OK too but the logic and certainty for the need to husband resources, although slow to come here, has begun to make inroads for environmentalism. Lots of folks still think the oceans are infinite and can take all the waste we can dump with no ill effect but their numbers are shrinking as are those who think unrequlated disposal of human waste is a good idea, especially in a "Rural" area.

Folks around here for the most part just didn't (don't?) know any better. They would park a trailer house and dig a hole for a 55 gal drum with holes knocked in it with a pick (DIY septic tank) and run the over flow line down the hill to the creek, pasture, or wherever. When the sludge filed the tank too much they would bury another one or perform some other well engineered remediation.

Ground water is a precious resource which is dwindling all too fast. Few areas have really PRISTINE ground water anymore. I don't like to be over-regulated by folks who know less about waste treatment/disposal than I do (I'm no pro) but some regulation is absolutely neccessary and in many areas, long overdue. It isn't PC to address the roots of the problem so we stumble along in fits and starts of improvement, usually way behind the need.

Good water is in short supply and getting harder to come by. Sloppy waste treatment/disposal will not help matters and can darned sure make them worse.

Little town (a few hundred folks) about 5 miles from me just recently put their new waste water treatment facility on-line. Prior to getting a grant to help them build it, they just let the raw sewage overflow into the creek a couple miles from the South Canadian river whenever they couldn't keep up with the demand (lots of the time). Just a big example of what thousands and thousands (probably several millions, actually) of individuals do and think it some kind of guaranteed right for all rural citizens of the USA. (Reread while humming the battle hymn of the republic for background music).

I'm for sound regulations founded in good science and effective engineering that are fairly enforced for the common good. Unfortunately, regulations often are not uniformely or correctly applied and there are always folks who make cheating on such regulaltions some sort of life goal.

Unfortunately common sense is an uncommon commodity.

Patrick

Taylortractornut · Sep 26, 2002

I get around 500 for instlling a 300 gallon well tile in hard to place jobs and about 800 on 1000 gallon tanks. Thats for all the digging setting, materials, and landscaping. i dont do anythin under the house, unless i need to put my homebuilt boring rig to fit a rough plumbed house.

I get double that if i have to work around 50 concrete 3 foot tall statues like the last yard i did lol

heehaw · Sep 27, 2002

unless you've got some really bad ground, theres not a lot to putting in a septic system properly; but it is a lot of labor, and the ability to use a level helps..the biggest thing i see from regulations is $$$$$..the regulations make it so only certain folks can do the work, which drives the price up..like perk test; here, the only folks that can run a perk test is an engineer or a surveyor!!! so guess what happened to the price of getting a perk test done?? i haven't seen to many regs that made the finished job any better, safer or environmentally friendly, just cost more. there are always going to be folks that don't or won't do things right, hence the septic going into the creek, but thats still no reason to punish folks that do...well, on second thought it guess it is, since thats the way it always ends up anyway.
heehaw

patrickg · Sep 27, 2002

heehaw, I think there is a "political side" to the septic rules evolution that, in practice, doesn't really make things better even though it is supposed to have that effect. You are on the right track when you "follow the money." My understanding is that some sort of soil testing/analysis is performed here now instead of perk tests. Costs more and only folks who take the classes, pass the tests, and get the lisc can do the work. The results of the analytical work determines what sort of system and how big you are required to have. The way it was explained to me by a real savy septic installer who is one of the few lisc sanitary landfill operators in the state, there is lots of room for abuse. The guy making the determination of what you need is the guy selling/installing what you need, a situation that could easily lead to abuse through overselling.

With perk tests, you or I could verify/replicate the tests. Auger a hole, pour in water according to the prescriptive method and observe the drop over time. This ability to easily relicate the test could give the system buyer a level of confidence that the system was sized properly, should you choose to do a little "quality control." Now with the analytical soil test method replacing the perk test, there is no convenient way for the customer to perform a simple confidence building experiment. I suppose you could do a traditional perk but it would be an apples and oranges argument if your results dissagreed with the new tests.

I'm real happy that the gentleman who did my mom's septic gave me the heads up on the coming rules change so that I could get "MY" perk test filed and not have to use the new method. He was standing by as the rules were iplemented to let me know if I had to have a system in the ground or if it was sufficient to just have the test results filed with the state. Just having the test results on file was sufficient.

The state used to recognize the superior performance of the "Infiltrator" system with its plastic domes and no gravel and would allow you to cut way back on the linear feet of leach lines but now I'm told they don't and it is strictly a lineal feet is lineal feet deal irrespective of whether you use gravel, chewed up tires, Infiltrator, or pixie dust.

Oh well,

Patrick