Equipment Needed for 80 Acres

[Soundguy]

I agree with Bill. An experienced operastor can come in.. demolish all structures you need dwmolished and haul them away.. and do a good amount of excavation / dirt movement for the rental price of what it would cost for a single serviceable good piece of equipment.

Past that.. for maintenance.. get whatever size mower you need to manage the pasture mowing.. size the tractor for that. That tractor can then plow the plantable area... size the plow / disc for that machine.

I see anything 50hp and up as being fine... all depends on how much time you want to spend doing the mowing / discing / plowing. If you plan to hay.. then i suggest you look up from that minimum 50hp number. Although you may be able to buy hay equipment sized for that easilly.. IE a sickle mower.. rake and square bailer would be fine for a utility tractor.. etc..

soundguy

 

[patrick_g]

Have you given serious thought to the source of income for the farm? You'll have to show profit, as well as satisfy the "Hobby Farm" questions to keep the IRS off of your back.

You do not have to show a profit to satisfy the IRS.

You do have to show that your intent was to make a profit and that it was reasonable and prudent to so expect. To support that contention you should have a business plan that shows how and when you expect to make a profit and it better look realistic. You don't have to show in your plan that you will make a profit right away but that you have a PLAN that if executed will produce a profit in a reasonable and business like manner.

Woe unto the few who are selected to be "showcase" examples. Guy builds a nice house and in the process buys lots of stuff and equipment ostensibly for "FARMING" but actually uses it for landscaping, to support house building, and to piddle in the dirt because he thinks it is fun. Along the way he gets a tax number and avoids paying taxes on many "potentially" farm related items. Later when audited he can't show how any of the taxable but no tax paid items were actually used in a FOR PROFIT agricultural enterprise. OOPS, too bad, so sad, big problems, bigger fines...

OK, so you don't build a house but can you show a plan that has merit and outlines how you have a reasonable expectation of making a profit? Vague generalities and coulda woulda shoulda doesn't impress the IRS.

First order of business is to get out of fanciful wishful thinking mode and write a reasonable business plan that shows how you have a reasonable expectation of having a profitable agricultural business. If you can't, won't, or just don't do this then you are asking for trouble. It is not enough when the knock comes on the door to say Joe and Jack did thus and so and didn't get into trouble.

I'm not trying to spread doom and gloom but merely swimming in the middle of the school does not guarantee that the barracuda will not zero in on you. The IRS doesn't have to catch everyone for you to have a bad day, they only have to catch you.

Oh, and the fire dept thing... Check with volunteer fire depts too, even ones outside of your immediate geographic area. They may want the training opportunity and having them signed up may sway your local FD to grant you a permit. (Professional courtesy and such.)

Pat

 

[OrangeGuy]

Z-Michigan-thanks for the barn lumber info. I have not yet had a chance to examine the barn so I'm not sure about the lumber. Like I stated earlier, I hope to save it. I talked to neighboring farmers and they believe tiling will be my best solution to dry up some of the wet areas in the pasture.

Kaib-I own an operating farm now so I'm somewhat familiar with the Minnesota requirements.

Soundguy-I don't plan on doing much pasture mowing. A neighbor rents it for his dairy heifers and they do a pretty good job of "mowing". However, I do plan to expand my Allis Chalmers tractor collection and would like something around 90 to 100 HP (190 XT, 200, 7000, etc). This would allow me to "mow" with something larger than my 6' brushhog.

Patrick_g-I wrote many a business plan in my professional life. If my accountant needs/wants one, he shall get one.

Thanks again for your replies.

So do I purchase the Bobcat, dozer and mini excavator or ???

OrangeGuy

 

[patrick_g]

My best advice now is for you to buy whatever you want.

Second best advice is to be cautious implementing advice from even the most well intentioned good ole boys in the county. Farmers are notoriously conservative and typically operate with information and processes that is a generation or two behind the current best practice. At least that is the way it is in Oklahoma and large parts of the southwest with cattle producers (grass farmers with a sideline of cattle production.)

Check with extension agents as a hedge against implementing outmoded practices. I'm not saying drainage tile isn't THE BEST option, I'm saying in the words of Ronald Reagan, "Trust but verify."

Pat

 

[BillyP]

You do not have to show a profit to satisfy the IRS.

This is true! It doesn't matter for how long or for what reason, as long as you have the proof. Depreciation and cost can wipe out several years of other wise profits. Doesn't matter if you never show a profit. Just have your ducks in a row.

One fact remains! If you ever sell, you will pay. That my friend is a guarantee.

 

[riptides]

I am coming into this kind of late. But the topic hits home and farm for me.

I am still in the process of remodelling our home/farm. I think this is year three of a five year plan. The home is almost done, so attention is once again to the out buildings. I have not purchased anything bigger than what I got, because it will NOT make me money. I will invest in what will make me money from here on out.

The process of demolition to me is a one time deal, fraught with unk-unks, (unknown unknowns). Better to let the more experienced ones with the right equipment do that stuff. I am beyond banging up my equipment for a darn 100 year old chicken coup.

Let me say another thing. Saving old barns is darn expensive. Real expensive. And real time consuming. Heck it took me 6 months to gut the inside if a dairy barn......

Good luck, and be safe.

-Mike Z.

 

[Z-Michigan]

So do I purchase the Bobcat, dozer and mini excavator or ???

IMHO, pick one, get a nice one, and use it for everything. I think trying to maintain two or three pieces of construction machinery will be too much; grease fittings and daily/weekly adjustments just multiply like mad. The TLB would probably be the most flexible, something like a JD 110, Kubota L48, or a true construction machine at the small end (e.g. JD210). If you decide skidsteer, I would seriously consider a rubber track machine instead of a wheel machine, since it gives you more traction, less ground pressure, and doesn't get flats. Mini excavator can do most things, but will be slowest at some tasks, and probably way high on the price end. The dozer seems like the least flexible - you can push stuff down and around, and that's it. Steel tracks also add a whole new level of maintenance and of course can't be used on pavement. Also, smaller dozers can't do much with tree stumps, and I don't think you can justify a D8.

For me personally, unless I planned to work inside buildings, I would be thinking a TLB in the size range of the L48. Big enough to do lots, small enough to be manageable and not break your budget (approx. $38k for a new L48, I think).

I would also take a look at power-trac. Their largest machines with the backhoe option would compare reasonably to an L48 or JD110 but also have a few more tricks with the front attach system.

 

[rvaitor]

You do not have to show a profit to satisfy the IRS.

You do have to show that your intent was to make a profit and that it was reasonable and prudent to so expect. To support that contention you should have a business plan that shows how and when you expect to make a profit and it better look realistic. You don't have to show in your plan that you will make a profit right away but that you have a PLAN that if executed will produce a profit in a reasonable and business like manner.

Woe unto the few who are selected to be "showcase" examples. Guy builds a nice house and in the process buys lots of stuff and equipment ostensibly for "FARMING" but actually uses it for landscaping, to support house building, and to piddle in the dirt because he thinks it is fun. Along the way he gets a tax number and avoids paying taxes on many "potentially" farm related items. Later when audited he can't show how any of the taxable but no tax paid items were actually used in a FOR PROFIT agricultural enterprise. OOPS, too bad, so sad, big problems, bigger fines...

OK, so you don't build a house but can you show a plan that has merit and outlines how you have a reasonable expectation of making a profit? Vague generalities and coulda woulda shoulda doesn't impress the IRS.

First order of business is to get out of fanciful wishful thinking mode and write a reasonable business plan that shows how you have a reasonable expectation of having a profitable agricultural business. If you can't, won't, or just don't do this then you are asking for trouble. It is not enough when the knock comes on the door to say Joe and Jack did thus and so and didn't get into trouble.

I'm not trying to spread doom and gloom but merely swimming in the middle of the school does not guarantee that the barracuda will not zero in on you. The IRS doesn't have to catch everyone for you to have a bad day, they only have to catch you.

Pat

I'm sorry to say - I am confused by this IRS stuff and buying things that the IRS wants to tax you on. What kind of tax are you talking about and what are they auditing you for? In my state there is sales tax and some things are subject to tax with a farm number and others are not -- a bushhog is not considered non-taxable for instance.

What if I buy and sell equipment? Is it taxable then( I claim the gain but don't pay sales tax)? We primarily have a timber farm but have been producing some hay for the last few years. I just want to avoid scrutiny - I'm not depreciating the equipment but I do expense some of my cost associated with travel etc against my eqmt gains.

Thanks

 

[BarryinMN]

So do I purchase the Bobcat, dozer and mini excavator or ???
OrangeGuy

So are you looking at a AC dozer?

Had a lot of trouble hiring rock pickers & this year finally acquired a mid frame skid steer - to pick small rocks. Never wanted one because the operator takes a beating running them. But now after the first week it is much faster on some tasks than a TLB or tractor loader.

A small dozer or track hoe will make short work of the demolition & without flat tire concerns, just get a thumb on the hoe & be sure it reaches up into the demo haul vehicle.

Only problem I see is you will be getting requests for help when friends & relatives see the equipment in the barn. The more portable the tools, the more calls you get!

One missing tool on your list is a self propelled articulating boom to get that weather beaten wood down without the liability of climbing a ladder.

 

[Soundguy]

Have you considered an industrial ford TLB.. like a 3-4-5 series?

They usually go for not much more than the average old tractor in the 'equipment trader' type magazines.

Soundguy

So do I purchase the Bobcat, dozer and mini excavator or ???

OrangeGuy