ethanol blends
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Bob_Skurka
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Re: ethanol blends
Vin, in some areas we do blend ethanol. "E85" fuel is 15% ethanol, 85% gas. But a 5% ethanol blend is far more common. The midwest states of the US are the most common areas to find ethanol fuel as those states have the farmers that push the product and also have the ethanol production capabilities. I believe Illinois is the leading state producing ethanol for fuel. Some say that it does harm engines, especially the blends that have a higher % of ethanol, as I understand it, ethanol acts as a cleaning agent and reduces lubricity properties (but I've actually never checked into that, it is just what I have been told), I presume they have to add a lubricating agent to the E85 blend.
Seems to me I read a study not to long ago that showed that it takes more energy to produce ethanol blend fuel than it contributes? Not sure if that was credible, I didn't check the source and don't recall if the author had an adjenda of his/her own.
Vin, in some areas we do blend ethanol. "E85" fuel is 15% ethanol, 85% gas. But a 5% ethanol blend is far more common. The midwest states of the US are the most common areas to find ethanol fuel as those states have the farmers that push the product and also have the ethanol production capabilities. I believe Illinois is the leading state producing ethanol for fuel. Some say that it does harm engines, especially the blends that have a higher % of ethanol, as I understand it, ethanol acts as a cleaning agent and reduces lubricity properties (but I've actually never checked into that, it is just what I have been told), I presume they have to add a lubricating agent to the E85 blend.
Seems to me I read a study not to long ago that showed that it takes more energy to produce ethanol blend fuel than it contributes? Not sure if that was credible, I didn't check the source and don't recall if the author had an adjenda of his/her own.
sneaky_pete
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Re: ethanol blends
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Seems to me I read a study not to long ago that showed that it takes more energy to produce ethanol blend fuel than it contributes? Not sure if that was credible, I didn't check the source and don't recall if the author had an adjenda of his/her own.)</font>
Bob, here is the results of a study by Cornell University and the University of California-Berkeley. I don't know if either of these schools have an agenda; certainly Berkeley is not known as a haven of political conservatism.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Seems to me I read a study not to long ago that showed that it takes more energy to produce ethanol blend fuel than it contributes? Not sure if that was credible, I didn't check the source and don't recall if the author had an adjenda of his/her own.)</font>
Bob, here is the results of a study by Cornell University and the University of California-Berkeley. I don't know if either of these schools have an agenda; certainly Berkeley is not known as a haven of political conservatism.
Bob_Skurka
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Re: ethanol blends
Pete that article refers to the study I was looking at!
The article sums it up very well, you burn more fuel making fuel than you can actually make. The net effect is the more fuel you try to make, the farther behind you actually end up.
Pete that article refers to the study I was looking at!
The article sums it up very well, you burn more fuel making fuel than you can actually make. The net effect is the more fuel you try to make, the farther behind you actually end up.
SkyPup
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Re: ethanol blends
Exactly, growing crops for fuel is a 100% losing proposition no matter how the politicans and lobbyists try to spin it.....
Exactly, growing crops for fuel is a 100% losing proposition no matter how the politicans and lobbyists try to spin it.....
PitbullMidwest
Platinum Member
Re: ethanol blends
I don't know about farmers in your area, but my relatives don't sell corn unless it's for profit. The local ethanol plant pays more for corn than elevators so that they can keep up with demand and have turned a profit every year since opening in 2000. They've also returned dividends to investors every year.
I'm not in a position to say the professor is wrong, but if the farmers and the ethanol plants are making money where does "costs more to produce" enter into the equation?
As far as burning it in your vehicle, I've run ethanol in my cars and trucks since it showed up at the pumps in the '80s and haven't had any more maintenance or repairs issues than others who run regular gas.
I don't know about farmers in your area, but my relatives don't sell corn unless it's for profit. The local ethanol plant pays more for corn than elevators so that they can keep up with demand and have turned a profit every year since opening in 2000. They've also returned dividends to investors every year.
I'm not in a position to say the professor is wrong, but if the farmers and the ethanol plants are making money where does "costs more to produce" enter into the equation?
As far as burning it in your vehicle, I've run ethanol in my cars and trucks since it showed up at the pumps in the '80s and haven't had any more maintenance or repairs issues than others who run regular gas.
sneaky_pete
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Re: ethanol blends
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't know about farmers in your area, but my relatives don't sell corn unless it's for profit. The local ethanol plant pays more for corn than elevators so that they can keep up with demand and have turned a profit every year since opening in 2000. They've also returned dividends to investors every year.
I'm not in a position to say the professor is wrong, but if the farmers and the ethanol plants are making money where does "costs more to produce" enter into the equation?)</font>
The farmers are making money; the U.S. government spends more than three billion dollars a year to subsidize ethanol production. But that cost is born by taxpayers and consumers.
The research also considers the energy used to produce the crop and the ethanol, such as production of pesticides and fertilizer, running farm machinery and irrigating, grinding and transporting the crop and in fermenting/distilling the ethanol from the water mix. When all these factors are considered, it takes more energy to make it than is generated by the ethanol fuel, so even if the farmers are OK, the result is a net energy loss for the U.S.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't know about farmers in your area, but my relatives don't sell corn unless it's for profit. The local ethanol plant pays more for corn than elevators so that they can keep up with demand and have turned a profit every year since opening in 2000. They've also returned dividends to investors every year.
I'm not in a position to say the professor is wrong, but if the farmers and the ethanol plants are making money where does "costs more to produce" enter into the equation?)</font>
The farmers are making money; the U.S. government spends more than three billion dollars a year to subsidize ethanol production. But that cost is born by taxpayers and consumers.
The research also considers the energy used to produce the crop and the ethanol, such as production of pesticides and fertilizer, running farm machinery and irrigating, grinding and transporting the crop and in fermenting/distilling the ethanol from the water mix. When all these factors are considered, it takes more energy to make it than is generated by the ethanol fuel, so even if the farmers are OK, the result is a net energy loss for the U.S.
MikeIA
Silver Member
Re: ethanol blends
The rebuttal:
NCGA-Ethanol
</font><font color="blueclass=small">( Ethanol opponents frequently cite a study by Cornell University’s Dr. David Pimentel, who concluded that it takes 70 percent more energy to produce ethanol than it yields. Pimentel’s findings have been consistently refuted by USDA and other scientists who say his methodology uses obsolete data and is fundamentally unsound. )</font>
I can't tell if this refers to the same study, or if Dr. Pimentel just completed a new one. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Also keep in mind the resources being spent to maintain the supply of fossil fuels.
E85 is 85% ethanol, 15% gas.
The rebuttal:
NCGA-Ethanol
</font><font color="blueclass=small">( Ethanol opponents frequently cite a study by Cornell University’s Dr. David Pimentel, who concluded that it takes 70 percent more energy to produce ethanol than it yields. Pimentel’s findings have been consistently refuted by USDA and other scientists who say his methodology uses obsolete data and is fundamentally unsound. )</font>
I can't tell if this refers to the same study, or if Dr. Pimentel just completed a new one. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Also keep in mind the resources being spent to maintain the supply of fossil fuels.
E85 is 85% ethanol, 15% gas.
PitbullMidwest
Platinum Member
Re: ethanol blends
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( "E85" fuel is 15% ethanol, 85% gas. )</font>
Bob, I thought your numbers were reversed but wanted to be sure before posting. From the same source MikeIA referenced:
"E85: This blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent ordinary unleaded gasoline"
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( "E85" fuel is 15% ethanol, 85% gas. )</font>
Bob, I thought your numbers were reversed but wanted to be sure before posting. From the same source MikeIA referenced:
"E85: This blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent ordinary unleaded gasoline"
Bob_Skurka
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Re: ethanol blends
OH YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN . . . at least that is what the lovely Mrs_Bob says to me all the time!!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
OH YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN . . . at least that is what the lovely Mrs_Bob says to me all the time!!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
