EV owners of today and tomorrow

[Grumpycat]

Ok you win that one. Grandkid time is really important, especially when you get time doing stuff you all enjoy.

Nothing would delight the kid more than if you took him hunting in a Cybertruck!

Saw my 2nd today. Still haven't seen a naked one. First was wearing a mauve wrap, this one was burnt orange.

 

[BleedingOrange]

I have thought about buying an EV, but haven,t been able to convince myself yet. What is the warranty on the battery packs, and what green method of disposal is being used for the discarded ones, at the present time ? Before I would seriously consider buying an EV, I would need a 20 year warranty on the complete vehicle. That is how long I expect my new ICE vehicles to last without a major issue, so the EV should be at least equivalent to that.

 

[D&D]

Nothing would delight the kid more than if you took him hunting in a Cybertruck!

Saw my 2nd today. Still haven't seen a naked one. First was wearing a mauve wrap, this one was burnt orange.

I do not go hunting. A cyber truck has 0 useful purposes for me. I need a truck that can haul my 3 horse gooseneck hitch LQ trailer to multiple places / states in a very timely manner.

 

[Fixastuff]

I’d rather have a 100year warranty. I not buying anything else unless it does.

 

[Grumpycat]

I have thought about buying an EV, but haven,t been able to convince myself yet. What is the warranty on the battery packs, and what green method of disposal is being used for the discarded ones, at the present time ?

100% battery replacement warranty is 8 years for most. The parameters for how bad the battery must be differ. And 100,000 miles for some, 125,000 others.

EV batteries rarely fail outright, just lose capacity. Then they are prime for repurposing such as for PV electricity storage, or time shifting one's home power consumption where TOU rates are outrageous.

When the battery is finally kaput there are many different ventures working on optimal ways to recover the contents. A battery is a much richer source of ore than anything mined from the ground. And another point to make is that the lithium, cobalt, whatever, is not consumed in the battery. The problem is a mostly-reversible chemical reaction for storing power finally gets enough errors that it is no longer a useful chemical reaction.

Before I would seriously consider buying an EV, I would need a 20 year warranty on the complete vehicle. That is how long I expect my new ICE vehicles to last without a major issue, so the EV should be at least equivalent to that.

Good luck in getting any such warranty on an ICE. If they really did last that long you wouldn't have any trouble getting one.

 

[BleedingOrange]

100% battery replacement warranty is 8 years for most. The parameters for how bad the battery must be differ. And 100,000 miles for some, 125,000 others.

EV batteries rarely fail outright, just lose capacity. Then they are prime for repurposing such as for PV electricity storage, or time shifting one's home power consumption where TOU rates are outrageous.

When the battery is finally kaput there are many different ventures working on optimal ways to recover the contents. A battery is a much richer source of ore than anything mined from the ground. And another point to make is that the lithium, cobalt, whatever, is not consumed in the battery. The problem is a mostly-reversible chemical reaction for storing power finally gets enough errors that it is no longer a useful chemical reaction.


Good luck in getting any such warranty on an ICE. If they really did last that long you wouldn't have any trouble getting one.

I didn,t mean my ICE vehicles have a warranty that lasts 20 years, but any ICE vehicle I have ever owned all have, without major issues. If the battery pack craps out in an EV, I noticed it was 22K to replace it. As long as that is the case, and since the battery pack is the heart of the system, I could never convince myself it would be worth spending that amount every 8 years, if it failed when it was out of warranty. I,m 75 years old. I highly doubt that a reliable north american grid system with enough capacity and availability will ever be built in my lifetime, even if I lived to be 100.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

True. My son's car is 21 years old, and it's on the completely original drivetrain. If say after 10-15 years a battery has to be replaced to the tune of $20k... Is it worth it? The rest of the car is getting tired too, and you are spending $20k just to repower it. Maybe in the future that changes. I'm sure it will. But ICE vehicles at this point can be kept on the road pretty cheaply for 20 years. I need a new O2 sensor for my 2007... But even that is only $40, and that's all I've done in the past two years or more.
I do have a friend with an original Model 3 Tesla, who said he needs to get 11 more years out of the car... So, I'll see how he manages!

 

[Grumpycat]

I didn,t mean my ICE vehicles have a warranty that lasts 20 years, but any ICE vehicle I have ever owned all have, without major issues. If the battery pack craps out in an EV, I noticed it was 22K to replace it. As long as that is the case, and since the battery pack is the heart of the system, I could never convince myself it would be worth spending that amount every 8 years, if it failed when it was out of warranty. I,m 75 years old. I highly doubt that a reliable north american grid system with enough capacity and availability will ever be built in my lifetime, even if I lived to be 100.

When you listen to those who tell you what you want to hear, you get the information you cite above.

Low mileage Tesla Model Y Long Range batteries go begging on eBay for $8,000. Look it up.

Or, you can believe $60,000 to replace a Hyundai EV battery (in Canada).

Lets see, the USA has the most reliable electric power grid in the world. But now we hear how terrible and awful it is and that is why EVs are bad! Our woefully pathetic "power grid" has a 50% generating capacity surplus at night. Dirt cheap electricity is sold to manufacturers who consume great amounts of electrical power to encourage them to do their thing at night. An EV can trivially charge at night (everything above a Fiat 500e has a charging scheduler), so the more EVs we have charging at night the more easy money for the utilities to build the infrastructure we are told they are lacking.

Of course the only reason electric power utilities have such terrible reliability and lack of power generation is that they are centrally managed socialist economies serving at the whim of "public service commissions" (czars) who starve the utility denying construction of new power plants, updating power lines, or even to cut the underbrush around existing power lines.

We haven't seen 3rd parties making replacement Tesla batteries yet because Tesla's batteries have proven to be so darn good, and there are plenty of good wrecked Teslas to donate their batteries. I know Prius and Chevy Volt have a pretty active 3rd party replacement battery market. A genuine 2007 Prius battery has fallen from $7,000 to under $2000.

Years ago there was big hay in the press about dealer giving an owner a nearly $30,000 quote for replacement battery in their Volt. What wasn't said was they quoted a battery they couldn't get. What wasn't said was that there were a half dozen 3rd parties with equal or better DIY replacement batteries for $5,000.

Another thing I suspect you do not understand is that nothing you know about automotive starter batteries, cellphone batteries, or laptop batteries apply to EV batteries. The EV battery is of much higher quality and cared and fed with much greater attention to lifespan. At 10 years my 2013 Tesla Model S battery retained 93% of it's original capacity. No doubt others didn't fare as well as I did, but then again there are lots of ICE out there getting new engines and transmissions at very young ages.

 

[Dftodd]

When you listen to those who tell you what you want to hear, you get the information you cite above.

Low mileage Tesla Model Y Long Range batteries go begging on eBay for $8,000. Look it up.

Or, you can believe $60,000 to replace a Hyundai EV battery (in Canada).

Lets see, the USA has the most reliable electric power grid in the world. But now we hear how terrible and awful it is and that is why EVs are bad! Our woefully pathetic "power grid" has a 50% generating capacity surplus at night. Dirt cheap electricity is sold to manufacturers who consume great amounts of electrical power to encourage them to do their thing at night. An EV can trivially charge at night (everything above a Fiat 500e has a charging scheduler), so the more EVs we have charging at night the more easy money for the utilities to build the infrastructure we are told they are lacking.

Of course the only reason electric power utilities have such terrible reliability and lack of power generation is that they are centrally managed socialist economies serving at the whim of "public service commissions" (czars) who starve the utility denying construction of new power plants, updating power lines, or even to cut the underbrush around existing power lines.

We haven't seen 3rd parties making replacement Tesla batteries yet because Tesla's batteries have proven to be so darn good, and there are plenty of good wrecked Teslas to donate their batteries. I know Prius and Chevy Volt have a pretty active 3rd party replacement battery market. A genuine 2007 Prius battery has fallen from $7,000 to under $2000.

Years ago there was big hay in the press about dealer giving an owner a nearly $30,000 quote for replacement battery in their Volt. What wasn't said was they quoted a battery they couldn't get. What wasn't said was that there were a half dozen 3rd parties with equal or better DIY replacement batteries for $5,000.

Another thing I suspect you do not understand is that nothing you know about automotive starter batteries, cellphone batteries, or laptop batteries apply to EV batteries. The EV battery is of much higher quality and cared and fed with much greater attention to lifespan. At 10 years my 2013 Tesla Model S battery retained 93% of it's original capacity. No doubt others didn't fare as well as I did, but then again there are lots of ICE out there getting new engines and transmissions at very young ages.

Grid reliability really depends on where you are in the country. California's grid is pretty unreliable. Pushing EV's for the environment, but then telling people not to charge their EV's during the day due to grid stress and tolling blackouts. That sucks of your sole transportation is an EV and you work nights

Power is pretty reliable where I live, and where you live. But our states keep up with the maintenance. Factor in the occasional tornado, severe storms, etc..... It forces the power companies to keep up on their preventative maintenance, and tree trimming along the lines.

 

[Dftodd]

When you listen to those who tell you what you want to hear, you get the information you cite above.

Low mileage Tesla Model Y Long Range batteries go begging on eBay for $8,000. Look it up.

Or, you can believe $60,000 to replace a Hyundai EV battery (in Canada).

Lets see, the USA has the most reliable electric power grid in the world. But now we hear how terrible and awful it is and that is why EVs are bad! Our woefully pathetic "power grid" has a 50% generating capacity surplus at night. Dirt cheap electricity is sold to manufacturers who consume great amounts of electrical power to encourage them to do their thing at night. An EV can trivially charge at night (everything above a Fiat 500e has a charging scheduler), so the more EVs we have charging at night the more easy money for the utilities to build the infrastructure we are told they are lacking.

Of course the only reason electric power utilities have such terrible reliability and lack of power generation is that they are centrally managed socialist economies serving at the whim of "public service commissions" (czars) who starve the utility denying construction of new power plants, updating power lines, or even to cut the underbrush around existing power lines.

We haven't seen 3rd parties making replacement Tesla batteries yet because Tesla's batteries have proven to be so darn good, and there are plenty of good wrecked Teslas to donate their batteries. I know Prius and Chevy Volt have a pretty active 3rd party replacement battery market. A genuine 2007 Prius battery has fallen from $7,000 to under $2000.

Years ago there was big hay in the press about dealer giving an owner a nearly $30,000 quote for replacement battery in their Volt. What wasn't said was they quoted a battery they couldn't get. What wasn't said was that there were a half dozen 3rd parties with equal or better DIY replacement batteries for $5,000.

Another thing I suspect you do not understand is that nothing you know about automotive starter batteries, cellphone batteries, or laptop batteries apply to EV batteries. The EV battery is of much higher quality and cared and fed with much greater attention to lifespan. At 10 years my 2013 Tesla Model S battery retained 93% of it's original capacity. No doubt others didn't fare as well as I did, but then again there are lots of ICE out there getting new engines and transmissions at very young ages.

In relation to Ice engines. Ford has a nightmare going on with their 1.3lt eco boost engines. My sister in law has an EcoSport with 90,000 miles on it.

It's been at Ford since January. It wont run, and the engine smoked itself. They ran the oil pump off a timing chain on the engine and didn't take into account vibration.

Local ford dealer should have all the parts for the new motor for her car by mid September, then they will install another 1.3l ecoboost motor under the power train warranty.

The newly designed engine for that car won't be available for another 2 years.

So, the cars getting an new motor (gen 1) in September. Then when the newly designed engine becomes available. They will bring the car back in and give it a second engine swap covered under the recall.