Exactly what IS "restored"

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm sure most of us have been to an antique tractor show at one point in our lives. Not everyone has the desire, time, disposable income, or shop space to get involved in a serious restoration. But most of us can admire a quality restoration of one of our favorites.

There is no "rule book" for what comprises a restoration. It's all a matter of personal choice.

Every antique tractor enthusiast has thier opinion of just how far you have to go to say you restored a tractor. Some seem to think a quick splash of paint and a new seat cover is enough. Others believe it takes ALL original parts and/or NOS/OEM parts, the exact same type of tires, paint that belongs on a show car, mechanical parts machined back to original specs, and YEARS of fine tuning the most minute details.

Or somewhere in between.

I've seen restored tractors that look good. I've seen 'em that look BETTER than original. And I've seen a few that look just like they did when the dealer unloaded them at the farm on day one.

What "floats your boat"?

Myself? My idea of a restoration is getting everything back to near new condition, and looking like it did when it was a new tractor in the field. A few MINOR alterations are acceptable. Paint should look original. Tractors in the "old days" didn't have a high luster shine that required a welding hood to look at on a sunny day. They did have a smooth finish, but not a "wet look". Paint schemes should be original. No extra detailing. I like to see things like original seats and cushions. Gauges should be OEM style. Wiring not painted UNLESS it was painted originally. Most new tractors had the radiator hoses in place when painted. Unpainted hoses are acceptable, but probably not an original detail. Tires should at least be original size. I've seen a lot of "show tractors" that have over-sized rubber. Not my cup of tea. I'm big on a tractor having as many options, even those that were dealer installed options of the day. (ie umbrellas, fender radios, bumpers/grill gaurds, ect)

Now mind you, I'm not talking about a "refurbished" older tractor that was cleaned up and made mechanically sound for every day use. I'm talking RESTORED. Also, keep in mind I'm NOT trying to pin everyone down to an exact set of rules. This thread will at some point be shown to a group of people who're considering adding an antique tractor display to our town's spring festival. I want them to see what a variety of thinking the tractor world has to offer. They have a preconceived notion we're going to haul in a field full of museum pieces that no one can touch, or no one will relate to. My goal is to show them that MOST of the "restored tractors" will simply be Grampa's old "A" cleaned up and looking like it did 60 years ago.

Your thoughts?

 

[Egon]

Golly, would not "restored" mean it was taken back to where it was stored the last time??? HE He.

 

[MrJimi]

Restored will mean very different to lots of people, some call a restore just a full repaint and I mean everything repainted. That is repainted not restored to me
Jim

 

[Soundguy]

As you and MrJimi alude to.. plenty of peopl e like the 'dupont' restorations.. or worse yet.. an 'auction' paint job that has wires, tires, hoses and anything else painted.. etc.

I tend to do more 'refurbishments' than restorations. my goal is a working tractor that has been brought back to function well mechanically, and then cleaned up and painted to protect it from subcomming to corrosion.

For a restoration.. I like to see close to factory condition as reasonable possible. I'm not a fan of the 2000$ paint job on the 2000$ tractor... considering most antiques left the factory with a ( adjusted cost ) 60$ alkyd enamil paint job... and quickly hit the field and pasture where bushes will scratch off 60$ paint just as fast as 2000$ paint.. etc.

soundguy

 

[chh]

To me restored is back to original condition, as it left the factory. That said, I think a few get carried away trying to get everything back to new spec and a high dollar paint job. I have seen a lot of "restored" tractors that are just repainted and running, not much effort put into making it look new or even all original. There is a club here in Ok that I have seen that has displays at the fairs and farm shows that have most of their tractors in original paint schemes ect. but are not what most people would call show quality because the actually get them out and use them to show how they really worked. They are really neat to watch and hear, but have the assorted leaks and some faults due to age and use. I'm not sure many people would call them restored but they sure are fun.

 

[ToadHill]

If it didn't run when I got it and it does now, it's restored.

 

[bontai_Joe]

I try to go to as many tractor shows, auctions, pulls a year as I can. What do I like to see in a show tractor? A tractor that has good tires, rust free wheels, a paint job that would look as if factory applied (not the 12 coat hand rubbed laquer jobs or clear coated wet look paint) Grease and oil removed from the fittings and joints, original or good reproduction decals, and set up as it was when it left the factory. I also enjoy older tractors that still have the original factory paint on them, that have been worked, but cared for through their lives. These "working" tractors should be somewhat close to factory in that plumbing fittings for an exhaust pipe is a no-no, chicken wire to replace a grill is a no-no, I'd rather see the original grill even if it's bent and rusted. The hitch should lift, moving parts should move, nice if the gages and lights work. I don't fault a switch from 6v to 12v, but do not like to see old car tires on the front axle.

The odd tractors that I can admire the craftsmanship in building, but wouldn't want one:
Tractors that have had the original engines replaced with big block car motors.

Tractors that have been heavily modified with a cutting torch to raise, or lower, or lengthen for some long forgotten reason because farmer "X" was too cheap to buy the correct piece of equipment.

 

[flusher]

I'm sure most of us have been to an antique tractor show at one point in our lives. Not everyone has the desire, time, disposable income, or shop space to get involved in a serious restoration. But most of us can admire a quality restoration of one of our favorites.

There is no "rule book" for what comprises a restoration. It's all a matter of personal choice.

Every antique tractor enthusiast has thier opinion of just how far you have to go to say you restored a tractor. Some seem to think a quick splash of paint and a new seat cover is enough. Others believe it takes ALL original parts and/or NOS/OEM parts, the exact same type of tires, paint that belongs on a show car, mechanical parts machined back to original specs, and YEARS of fine tuning the most minute details.

Or somewhere in between.

I've seen restored tractors that look good. I've seen 'em that look BETTER than original. And I've seen a few that look just like they did when the dealer unloaded them at the farm on day one.

What "floats your boat"?

Myself? My idea of a restoration is getting everything back to near new condition, and looking like it did when it was a new tractor in the field. A few MINOR alterations are acceptable. Paint should look original. Tractors in the "old days" didn't have a high luster shine that required a welding hood to look at on a sunny day. They did have a smooth finish, but not a "wet look". Paint schemes should be original. No extra detailing. I like to see things like original seats and cushions. Gauges should be OEM style. Wiring not painted UNLESS it was painted originally. Most new tractors had the radiator hoses in place when painted. Unpainted hoses are acceptable, but probably not an original detail. Tires should at least be original size. I've seen a lot of "show tractors" that have over-sized rubber. Not my cup of tea. I'm big on a tractor having as many options, even those that were dealer installed options of the day. (ie umbrellas, fender radios, bumpers/grill gaurds, ect)

Now mind you, I'm not talking about a "refurbished" older tractor that was cleaned up and made mechanically sound for every day use. I'm talking RESTORED. Also, keep in mind I'm NOT trying to pin everyone down to an exact set of rules. This thread will at some point be shown to a group of people who're considering adding an antique tractor display to our town's spring festival. I want them to see what a variety of thinking the tractor world has to offer. They have a preconceived notion we're going to haul in a field full of museum pieces that no one can touch, or no one will relate to. My goal is to show them that MOST of the "restored tractors" will simply be Grampa's old "A" cleaned up and looking like it did 60 years ago.

Your thoughts?

Velly intelesting.

IMHO, your distinction between "restored" and "refurbished" is valid.

However, I think we need to include a sliding scale that covers "refurbished" tractors, one going from barely refurbished to hugely refurbished.

For example, my 1964 MF-135 diesel lies on the lower end of that scale (tractor sheet metal was stripped/cleaned/repainted; body was cleaned/repainted; gauges replaced, tractor rewired, new steering wheel, bent sheet metal parts replaced, new decals).

If I would have torn into the engine/tranny/hydraulics and did a major overhaul of these, then I would be inclined to argue that I was doing a huge refurbishment. But that's just my opinion.

Now judging by your recent TBN postings, your MF-150 lies at the top of that "refurbished" scale and borders on a "restoration".

Right now a neighbor has a 1951 Allis Chalmers WD with the tricycle wheel setup. Engine may be stuck. Just finished viewing the J&D video covering WD/WD-45 engine refurb. Still agonizing over whether to get into this kind of project.

 

[Soundguy]

On the flip side.. i also enjoy seieng the 'fresh from the field' tractors at shows.

In fact.. as much as i like to see the candied up 'tarts' and the real good refurbs.. I also like to see what farmers made due with.. like the chicken wire
grills, welde don parts.. home-made parts, and plumbing fittings here and there.

What many people forget is that back inthe day, you may not have had walmart to run to town to get something. if the tractor broke down in the field, and all you had was some grey pipe to get the hyds going.. you did it.. same with the mismatched tires and all...

I've seen ac lamp switches on old tractors.. faucet valves in hyd lines.. etc..

I think it shows ingenuity in a day before next day shipping of anything you needed off ebay.. etc..

soundguy

I try to go to as many tractor shows, auctions, pulls a year as I can. What do I like to see in a show tractor? A tractor that has good tires, rust free wheels, a paint job that would look as if factory applied (not the 12 coat hand rubbed laquer jobs or clear coated wet look paint) Grease and oil removed from the fittings and joints, original or good reproduction decals, and set up as it was when it left the factory. I also enjoy older tractors that still have the original factory paint on them, that have been worked, but cared for through their lives. These "working" tractors should be somewhat close to factory in that plumbing fittings for an exhaust pipe is a no-no, chicken wire to replace a grill is a no-no, I'd rather see the original grill even if it's bent and rusted. The hitch should lift, moving parts should move, nice if the gages and lights work. I don't fault a switch from 6v to 12v, but do not like to see old car tires on the front axle.

The odd tractors that I can admire the craftsmanship in building, but wouldn't want one:
Tractors that have had the original engines replaced with big block car motors.

Tractors that have been heavily modified with a cutting torch to raise, or lower, or lengthen for some long forgotten reason because farmer "X" was too cheap to buy the correct piece of equipment.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I enjoy looking at tractors that have been restored as if they came from the factory. I also like looking at the tractors that are pure show tractors. The amount of time and attention to detail the owners spent on them show they care about their tractor. I think the tractors look sharp with the high gloss and high end decals, NOS wires and every minute detail expertly taken care of.

I also love seeing the tractors with 50 year old paint that have been taken care of their entire life. These tractors do not need to be restored because they look great the way they are.

And I enjoy seeing the tractors that worked every day of their life also and the owner that brought the tractor to the show is the same guy who bought the tractor new. You hear some amazing history about the tractor and farming back then.

But as for what is exactly restored, what ever the owner does and is happy with. My grandfather "restores" tractors. I shake my head at some of the things he does but he is happy with the tractor and when he is done the tractor has a new lease on life even if it isn't what I would think of as show quality. He likes to beat out the dents and does the shaker can paint job. He tries to fix them up without sinking too much money in them and he is happy and that is what matters. Plus, when he is done he uses the tractors at his place. If it doesn't earn its keep he sells it and buys another. He keep trying to sell my tractors too though

 

[FULLPULL]

This is a good question . If a farmer does normal up keep on a tractor and uses it regular there is normal up keep. Paint always seems to make it look new . Parts that wear finaly give up and its time to replace them then go back to work . If i was going to restore a tractor i would find one with good sheet metal not good paint . Sand blast it and check for worn parts and replace as needed. With the price of laybor and parts even if you do your own work you can wind up with a hefty bill . They may not pay for there self now but you just gave a tractor another 20 years of service .

 

[scott_vt]

Myself? My idea of a restoration is getting everything back to near new condition, and looking like it did when it was a new tractor in the field. A few MINOR alterations are acceptable. Paint should look original. Tractors in the "old days" didn't have a high luster shine that required a welding hood to look at on a sunny day. They did have a smooth finish, but not a "wet look". Paint schemes should be original. No extra detailing. I like to see things like original seats and cushions. Gauges should be OEM style. Wiring not painted UNLESS it was painted originally. Most new tractors had the radiator hoses in place when painted. Unpainted hoses are acceptable, but probably not an original detail. Tires should at least be original size. I've seen a lot of "show tractors" that have over-sized rubber. Not my cup of tea. I'm big on a tractor having as many options, even those that were dealer installed options of the day. (ie umbrellas, fender radios, bumpers/grill gaurds, ect)

Now mind you, I'm not talking about a "refurbished" older tractor that was cleaned up and made mechanically sound for every day use. I'm talking RESTORED. Also, keep in mind I'm NOT trying to pin everyone down to an exact set of rules.

Your thoughts?

Mornin Bill,
Now Bill thats a darn difficult question early in the mornin ! Im guessin those aftermarket red and white padded seats would leave me out of the restoration club for sure !

Im thinkin I need another cup of coffee and need to ponder this awhile longer !

The good news is that I didnt spend a ton of dough on fancy paint !

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I've done quite a bit in the automotive restoration/hotrod field and one thing I'm not impressed with is "trailer queens." Sure, there are some cars and some tractors that belong in museums. A 1969 ZL-1 camaro for one. Tractors? I don't know but I'm certain there are some extremely rare ones. I have seen the Hemi Superbirds with no engine internals, they push it on and off the trailer to shows. That doesn't impress me.
I don't know about tractors, but an antique car is allowed to be painted any color that was offered for that car, even if it was just trim paint, and not get any points knocked off at a show. My friends 1931 Chevy has yellow painted rims from the factory. He could paint the whole car yellow and not lose points. Let's hope tractor shows/judging doesn't follow this example.
A tractor doesn't have to be assembly line correct in my book. I can appreciate the time, effort, and money it takes to do this on any level the owner chooses to do it. But, I would much rather see a factory paint job than a need-my-sunglasses-on-a-cloudy-day paint job. Shiny paint is actually much easier than factory paint.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Mornin Bill,
Now Bill thats a darn difficult question early in the mornin ! Im guessin those aftermarket red and white padded seats would leave me out of the restoration club for sure !

Im thinkin I need another cup of coffee and need to ponder this awhile longer !

The good news is that I didnt spend a ton of dough on fancy paint !

Howdy Scotty!

Where ya been keepin' yourself? Miss you around here.

My theory about "restored" has always been "to each his own". I have MY definition, but don't see that as THE defined rule. There are different levels of restoration. The Greenies (Deere-oids) have their "EXPO QUALITY" to shoot for (2-Cylinder EXPO allows ONLY the best of the best to show) Fortunatly, the rest of us don't have such a high bar to clear.

My idea of a restoration can be a work in progress. (ie, my 150) It may NEVER be "finished" even though it's done to acceptable standards. There's always room for improvement.

When I go to a show, I expect to see restored tractors in various degrees of "perfection". A quality aftermarket seat cushion is better than a ripped burlap feed bag stretched over an old pillow. It's all about what makes you happy though. Me? I like OEM/NOS parts and not too many aftermarket pieces. The next guy might not even notice the seat cushion.

My 150 is probably 95% complete. (Still looking for (A) an OEM steering wheel, (B) a right fender, (C) Correct "period" MF fender mounted AM/FM radio. The NEXT project, dads Ferguson F-40 will be a long, drawn out affair. It hasn't ran in 10 years, and probably won't roll out of the shop for another 5. It will be PERFECT when it's done. Nothing less will be acceptable. If I'm still up to another after that, I'll be doing my uncles old MF50. The standards won't be nearly as strict with that one.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Howdy Scotty!

Where ya been keepin' yourself? Miss you around here.

My theory about "restored" has always been "to each his own". I have MY definition, but don't see that as THE defined rule. There are different levels of restoration. The Greenies (Deere-oids) have their "EXPO QUALITY" to shoot for (2-Cylinder EXPO allows ONLY the best of the best to show) Fortunatly, the rest of us don't have such a high bar to clear.

My idea of a restoration can be a work in progress. (ie, my 150) It may NEVER be "finished" even though it's done to acceptable standards. There's always room for improvement.

When I go to a show, I expect to see restored tractors in various degrees of "perfection". A quality aftermarket seat cushion is better than a ripped burlap feed bag stretched over an old pillow. It's all about what makes you happy though. Me? I like OEM/NOS parts and not too many aftermarket pieces. The next guy might not even notice the seat cushion.

My 150 is probably 95% complete. (Still looking for (A) an OEM steering wheel, (B) a right fender, (C) Correct "period" MF fender mounted AM/FM radio. The NEXT project, dads Ferguson F-40 will be a long, drawn out affair. It hasn't ran in 10 years, and probably won't roll out of the shop for another 5. It will be PERFECT when it's done. Nothing less will be acceptable. If I'm still up to another after that, I'll be doing my uncles old MF50. The standards won't be nearly as strict with that one.

The 2 Cylinder club's main expo allows unrestored tractors and also allows "lesser" restorations to show. The point of the show is to have as many variations of tractors there as possible so they will take just about anything in order to achieve this goal. If they get multiples of the same model (like 100 identical 1950 model B's) then they will take only the best. But the whole theory that they only except the best for everything is a false rumor that has been spread for years.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

A quality aftermarket seat cushion is better than a ripped burlap feed bag stretched over an old pillow.

stop making fun of my tractors

I replaced a few feed bags on the cushion of the MF 135 and some day I will replace that old worn out thing with a new, correct cushion.

Something else I just thought about, my Ford 640 is suppose to be gray and red. However, the farm who owned the tractor since new repainted it around 5 years ago a nice blue and white like Ford tractors should be. That tractor looks so much nicer in blue and white I can never see repainting it the Gray and red if I did a full restore on it.

 

[RobS]

I saw a shoe some time back on car restoration. They talked about a true factory restoration and how that differs from the "perfect" restorations that are common. In the factory restoration they bring it back to exactly the way it was manufactured, even with the manufacturing "defects". The example I recall was the paint on a Corvette. Due to the body lines and paint guns, there was a portion of the body that did not get much paint so these guys replicated just that. A far cry from the "15 coats of hand rubbed laquer".

I really don't know much about refurbishing and restoration but I do enjoy looking at the old vehicles and tractors at shows.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

So I guess my old MF 85 won't be doing any shows soon with it's boat cushion for a seat. Anyone got an old seat for my baby?

 

[flusher]

----- But, I would much rather see a factory paint job than a need-my-sunglasses-on-a-cloudy-day paint job. Shiny paint is actually much easier than factory paint.

My "refurbished" 1964 MF-135 has shiny paint on the dash and the duller "factory" paint on the fenders and hood.

How did I manage this?

Ans: a cheap $40 HVLP spray gun from Harbor Freight, fairly cheap paint from Tractor Supply (supposed to be from Valspar) thinned with VM&P naptha, and, most important, my severe limitations as a spray painter.

 

[scott_vt]

Howdy Scotty!

Where ya been keepin' yourself? Miss you around here.

Afternoon Bill,
Well partner Im in semi retirement these days but Ill give you an inside view of my office 3 days a week !

BTW, theres nothin like the smell of diesel in the mornin !

Oh yea, almost forgot to mention, Ive got dual chrome stacks on my rig !

Sure beats lookin at 4 walls !