excavation sequence

   / excavation sequence #11  
If you have to use wheelbarrows run them around on some planks and dump where required. Remember that the concrete truck can come out with extra chute.

On the entrance apron a slope would be nice so rain doesn't run into garage. Have you considered paveing blocks for this area?

If no lazer level a string line about about a foot above the finished grade can be used to measure from. Means wading in very fresh concrete.

Egon
 
   / excavation sequence #12  
I don't no about pushing concrete it seems a lot easier to pull it to you you using a garden rake. If you are going to use mud buggys you need to start on the sides pull concrete towards middle. But only do an area reachable by rake. Go to other side dump concrete and pull towards center. You need to work side to side and back to front only work an area you can reach by rake. People working with rakes should also work cement by pushing down on top of cement with rake up down motion, to work out air pockets and semi level. Make sure you rent a bull float with extensions to finish floor. I would not pore apron at the same time as floor. This should be poured with an expansion joint at main slab because this wil be outside. You definitly do not want posible weather to cause problems with main slab. It is easier in future to replace apron in future if you have problems if it is not conected to main slab. Also it would be quicker if you plased rebar in form before pour hardware stores have alumnium stakes you can buy to place in ground (no rusting) to support rebar then wire rebar to these at distances you want. I don't no about where you live but here in central PA. they only allow so much time to get x amount of concrete off of truck. You will need a good crew with everybody having an idea about what they will be doing. Also if these are volunteers make shore you get a couple extra if possible. In case somebody calls up day of and can't make it.
 
   / excavation sequence #13  
If you mean an apron in front of the door that sticks out 3' from the entrance, I'd pour it separately. You'll want it to pitch away from the garage for proper drainage.
 
   / excavation sequence #14  
I will second that suggestion as to pouring it separately, but I would also set 5/8" rebar into the floor where the door is located extending out to where the apron is going to be located to hold the apron from falling or pulling away. This is accomplished by drilling holes in the framing lumber and sticking it into the holes when the floor is being prepared. It should be bent down the last 6" at the floor end in a hook like fashion. It should extend about 2' into the floor and about 2' into the apron. This is important to keep the apron from moving away from the building in later years due to settlement or frost. I like a broom finish on the apron for traction in winter and to keep water moving off during rain in warm weather. Some people put a depression in the concrete floor at the door to keep rain from coming under the door during driving rain. I have never done this, but I can see the advantages. I am not certain of the procedures of how to do it properly, so I can't be of any help to you on this aspect. I don't believe in sloping floors, because I have never seen a floor that would have enough water on it that a slope would be of any benefit for the water to run off of it. If you have that much water on the floor, it is called a flood and the slope won't matter. Besides, if you slope the floor, it all would have to slope to the door in all directions to be effective. It just isn't necessary in most cases. If you had one bay that you were going to wash your car in, I could see that one having a drain in the middle, but you would need to slope the entire floor toward the drain like a shower for it to be effective. That would mean 1/4" per foot from the sides to the center for that bay. That is a lot of pitch!
 
   / excavation sequence
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Thanks for the picture Don, that cements the idea in my head. (of course
there was a lot of cement in there already.)

This discussion has been most helpful. I got one professional quote
that came in a $1,800. Sounded like a lot to me. I want to get a couple
more. But my advantage is that I have a friend who used to do
concrete as a summer job and another friend who just installed a
large concrete patio. I figure 8 guys ought to be enough even if one
backs out at the last minute. I haven't gotten a quote for just the ready
mix delivery yet.

Mostly I want to do it myself so I can learn about excavation, and about
concrete, and I want an the extra excuse (I mean, reason) to buy a
nice 4110 with a loader and a backhoe.

Anyway, thanks for all the discussion. It is helpful and empowering.


Cliff
 
   / excavation sequence #16  
Don,

Chamfering those inside edges looks like a good idea. Nature abhors a sharp corner as well as a vacuum!

John
 
   / excavation sequence #17  
Make sure that you compare apples to apples and that the quote you get on the concrete materials is the same as the contractor was quoting on. Too often contractors quote on a lesser grade of materials to keep the price down. Don't skimp on the quality of the concrete. The price differential isn't enough in the end to make the difference, but the difference in quality of the job is. One thing to consider is the type of finish that you will have on the floor if you do it yourself or have it done. Many concrete contractors will use a power finisher that has the ability to give you a very smooth finish, which you cannot duplicate without the machine and the experience in operation of it. I like a 3500# mix with fiberglass, 6"x6" wire, and rebar where needed poured 6" at the edges and 4"-5" in the middle with plastic barrier underneath.
 
   / excavation sequence
  • Thread Starter
#18  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Many concrete contractors will use a power finisher that has the ability to give you a very smooth finish, which you cannot duplicate without the machine and the experience in operation of it. )</font>

That's a good question. I don't know what finish I want. I was thinking
a light broom finish, so I wouldn't slip if I got a little oil on the floor.
Do you think a smooth finish would be better? Perhaps easier to clean the
oil off of, which is also a way to keep from slipping, I guess.

I will be keep a my tractor, lawn tractor in it, and also have some
tinkering space if I learn to weld etc.

Cliff
 
   / excavation sequence #19  
My parents garage had a broom finish and it was always dusty, held the mud from the tires, difficult to sweep, and you could never get the oil stains off of it. I have a smooth finish on the garage floor and oil stains come up with some speedy dry and a rub of the shoe. It sweeps clean and I don't find it slippery unless it is wet and I am wearing leather soled shoes. There is no way that I would consider a broom finish and I know how much work it is to do a concrete floor. I have seen them done and I know that the contractor does earn his money that day. Some projects are worth doing yourself, and others are just brute labor. Concrete work is brute labor. I rather let someone else do it. I have learned that I will do that which I can do over again without much of a problem. If you mess up a concrete job, you have no choice but to live with it. To me, that isn't a very good option. If you cut a piece of lumber too short, you can always cut another piece. If you don't build the wall correctly, you can take it down and rebuild it again. You can't do that with concrete. If the concrete isn't level, the wall isn't level. Everything depends on the foundation being correct. A 1/4" mistake at the bottom can cause many problems in the building of the final structure. The foundation of the building is the most important aspect. Everything else can be compensated for. I speak from experience. I made the mistake once when building a garage. I was talked into doing the foundation myself and I thought that I had enough experience to do it, having worked construction. I learned that I didn't work construction long enough to do it alone. That is why there is more than one doctor in the operating room! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / excavation sequence #20  
Junkman just nailed it. If you mess it up, you're stuck with a disaster.

I can handle a broom finish 12 by 12 pad by myself, but that is my max. I've done enough this size to realize my limits. You also don't want to be just starting out on the learning curve on something so permanent.

In my part of Texas, finish house pads are $3 a foot right now. And that was a deal. Last spring it was $2.50 a foot. They set the forms, dig the footings, install and tie the rebar and when the mixer arrives, they get it were it needs to be and smoothed out. My latest pour was 44 yards and a full crew of 8 stayed until 8 pm working the power trowel getting it perfect. That was 13 hours of straight work on just the pour day.

They spent the day before setting the forms.

Another point, the first mixer got stuck is the loose soil. What are you going to do with a stuck mixer? They had 20 or more sheets of 3/4 inch plywood to lay down to provide traction.

Sometimes it's cheaper to have somebody else do it!
 

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