Excavator for frozen ground

[Renze]

In very wet years over here in Holland, they sometimes had to harvest the corn silage over frozen ground because conditions were too muddy during the autumn. The corn that was chopped and silo'd when frozen, was fed to the cows in early summer at temperatures of +22°C and still frozen !!

I have seen a wheel loader spreading piled dirt in the spring, which was excavated and piled in the winter. In the hot spring, the pile wasnt defrosted yet.

because you want to elevate the road bed about 4 feet, just think of how long it would take to defrost the soil if it was frozen 4 feet deep.

If you cant afford to loose time and start digging during frost season, i would at least try to dig off the frozen layer first and put that aside, then elevate with non frozen subsoil and finally put the frozen chunks back on top of the non- frozen soil. If you dont, it will take a long, long time before the soil defrosts.

 

[Bigbear]

Thanks for all the input guys, I'm not quite sure what changed, everything seemed fine with me using the road, he even helped me build it. I had already spread gravel over most of the bad spots, and the road was in very good shape. I did offer to pay for the crops, 500 dollars a year would be about 4 times what the loss would be, it was along the woods edge. He did mention that someone had spoke with him, and that it was a liability thing more than the crops. I offered to have my attorney draw up something and pay any insurance that would be needed to solve the problem, but no go. At any rate, it's his land, and I respect that, would have been nice to have a year or so, but I will deal with it.
On with the road building, the parts of the road I will need to build up will be about 1600 feet or so. At the creek end of the road, it will have to be built up about 3 feet for about 300 to 400 feet. I had a friend bring in a smaller excavator, and in about 4 hrs he had most of that area pretty well filled up with dirt. It still needs alot more to finsh that area, but I do have a good start. My idea is to start at the creek end and simple back out to the other end while digging dirt and piling it up where the road will be. Some areas only need to be raised up about a foot, a few places 2 feet and at the creek end about 3 feet. I figure if my friend moved that much dirt with a machine half the size of the one I intend to rent, in 4 hours, I should have no problem digging all of it in the alloted 40 hrs rent time. As I dig the dirt and pile it up in a row where the road will be, I do not intend to try and really make it a final grade. I thought if I piled it up higher and wider than needed, with the spring rains, it should start to settle, and then bring in a smaller dozer and finish grade and compact the road, and then add gravel after it has dried out and warmed up a bit.
Our forcast for this area, is 0 or below for the upcoming week, this really scares me, I don't want to wait another week, but on the other hand I don't want to freeze running the machine. My only other concern with doing it now is, the rental machine is available now, and I may not be able to rent it when the weather gets better, and I'm sure everybody else is looking for that window of opportunity in the spring.
How do we get ourselves into these messes, so many things to worry about, like it's not enough the house I built is totally off grid, solar panels, wind generator and batteries with a gas generator for power in between. Here is a link with some pictures if anyone is interested, not fancy, nor near finished, but we love it. Bears Lodge
I will try and post more pictures, and thanks for all the help guys. BEAR

 

[BTDT]

Nice looking place. Are you not concerned with residence being that close to creek? Looks like you've done a lot of work there, with a lot more still to come. Keep the pics coming.

 

[varmint]

Bear- I have a tale about digging in Indiana in frozen ground: in the late 70's, I was an architect on a restaurant addition project up in the Lafayette area. They started construction in a paved parking lot in late Jan. with a D-9 cat with a single tooth. No problem for the D-9, but the ground was frozen hard to a depth of 48". Very interesting to look at, but hard to imagine working in 5 degree temps!

 

[Bigbear]

BTDT, your right, it looks pretty close. The water would have to come up about 12 feet to reach the cabin, and I've never seen it over about 7 feet deep. If I would start having an erosion problem, I guess we just start hauling in rip-rap and hope for the best. At age 53 problems seem much bigger than they use to at about age 18 or so, my friends my age seem to think I've lost my mind, by taking on such a journey at this late age. They may be right, but I'll never know till I try. BEAR

 

[varmint]

You think the problems seem bigger at age 53? Wait until you get into your 60's... those same problems will have grown exponentially. Or, maybe it's just that you've dealt with them all before, and they are less interesting the second or third time around?

 

[Bigbear]

Finally finished, what a relief. Several of my friends told me it could not be done, in a weeks time, and I have to admit, there were a couple times, I thought they might be right. Thanks for all the good advice from the TBN members, especially about the machine being like a 30,000 lb bob sled. I came very close to upsetting the machine in the creek a couple times. The tracks just slid sideways and started down the bank, which greatly increases the pucker factor to off the scale. I turned the machine to the creek side and pushed myself back up while going forward at the same time, sure was nice to have a tree between me and the steep bank. OH, I was doing all this as we were having a blizzard, which left us with 16" of snow on the ground, and rather big drifts. Some of the dirt was frozen 11", but most was only about 3" to 6", and dug rather easy. The bucket was worn out a long time ago, they did put new teeth (cast iron) on the bucket, and tack welded them on. They lasted about 1 day, the nubs where the new teeth slide on were already worn down. I was told to go ahead and dig with the nubs, which I did. SunBelt rentals were great to work with, they game me extended time, since the machine still had some water in the hydraulic tank and lines and took about an hour or more to warm up enough to operate. I did have to fix a leaky fitting on the boom and add 10 gal. of fluid. Even with all the problems, and below O temps, things went pretty well. I now have a half mile skinny lake along side my driveway. Now all I have to do is wait for the rains to settle the dirt and dry out enough to bring in a dozer and final grade and pack the road enough to put gravel down. Again, thanks for all the help, BEAR

 

[EddieWalker]

Congratualations!!!!

You might want to consider bringing in a motor grador, or they are also called a manintainer, to smooth and shape out your road. A dozer is very tricky to get a smooth, well shaped road with, while the grader is designed to do this.

If you are hiring it out, the price should be the same per hour, or very close, but the grader will do it much, much faster!!! The tires of the grader will also do a better job of compacting the soil than the dozer will.

Eddie

 

[Bigbear]

Thanks Eddie, I agree that the grader would compact it faster, but also worry about the grader getting to close to the edge and slipping off. I have wondered what my tractor and 5 foot wide tiller would do. If I set it rather shallow, and just break up the big stuff, I could go back over it with the front bucket. My tractor seems to pack dirt better than a dozer, but it takes many more passes. Any other thoughts on final grade would be appreciated. BEAR

 

[EddieWalker]

I don't know anything about your tractor, but agree that tires do a better job of compacting soil than tracks do. It's all in the amount of weight being put on one spot versus it being spread out. When I compact a new road, I like to either run my dumptruck over it, or my backhoe with a full load in the front bucket.

If you can drive your tractor over the road, you can drive a motor grader. But I'm like you, I always try to use what I have to get the job done before renting or hireing it out. I doubt you can get the road as smooth as the motor grader, but if you have the time, you should be able to clean it up pretty nicely.

I like to put the bucket down in a flat position and drive inot the rough part of the road filling the bucket with dirt. Then I like to dump the dirt in low spots and back drag it to smooth it out. I've had good results creating a crown and drainage ditch along my roads like this. In fact, I just rough in my roads with my dozer and finish them off with my backhoe. Then when I'm all done, I like to drag my log and cyclone fence along the road to really smooth it out.

Eventually I'll pave my roads. When I do that, I'll hire a motor grader and have it done perfect. But for now, it's fine to be a little uneven. Every time it rains and I drive over them, I tear them up with ruts anyway. hahaha

Eddie