Exercising Land Rights vs Snowmobiling Accident

[rozett]

Re: Exercising Land Rights vs Snowmobiling Acciden

In this case, the chain was marked with flags. But the Warden Service is not sure the kids saw the flags because it was dark and there were piles of dirt across the lane (probably another attempt to keep out the ATVs.)

Here in Maine, I am not liable (by law) if an ATV operator is injured on my property unless they can show that I was willful or malicious. It even states that I <font color=blue>"shall owe no duty of care to keep the premises safe for entry or use"</font color=blue>. The ATV laws are available on the web with the following lead-in promonently displayed: <font color=blue>"ATTENTION: Please remember, you have no right - stated or implied - to operate your ATV on land of another. You should always ask permission before engaging in any outdoor activity on land you do not own or do not have permission to use. ASK FIRST!"</font color=blue>.

I have had a great deal of difficulty keeping the 4-wheelers off my land. A few irresponsible idiots have ruined it for all. They tore down any sign or barricades that I put up until I used my CUT to put big rocks across the trail. They even removed one of them but I replaced it with an even bigger rock. I have signed an agreement with the local snow mobile club granting permission to use the trail. But even they are frustrated with the access they have lost due to the 4-wheelers.

 

[TCowner]

Re: Exercising Land Rights vs Snowmobiling Acciden

Minnesota has a similar law. The law was written to encourage land owners to allow trails across their land. THe law essentially states that if a landowner gives permission for a snowmobile trail to created across their property that they assume no liability for any injuries that occur on their property. The only exception is if the landowner intentionally creates a hazard. The law of course can not stop someone from filing a lawsuit but it protects the landower in that if the plantiff fails to prevail in claiming the landowner deliberately created the hazard then the landowner can recover reasonable attorney fees occurred in defending the case. I can't comment on whether the farmers cable fence would be considered a deliberate hazarde or not. I agree with the comments made on this topic. The morons that don't respect private property ruin it for everyone else. I am a member of a snowmobile club in SE Minnesota and we try as best we can to maintain a good relationship with our landowners. Every year some "clown" wanders off the trail and gets hung up in a fence or opens a gate and lets livestock out. Most of the landowners recognize the existance of the morons and have not closed our trails.

 

[Trev]

All of this reminds me of the time we had a legal right of way (I think it was called an "easement") through a farmer's land to get to our cabin. I would ride my *quiet* little Honda trail bike (55cc) up and down this road, sometimes. One day, I found an old strand of barbed wire strung across the road at just about neck level.

I nailed the rear brake, half layed the bike down, and slid under the wire. I was lucky I even saw it!

I just let it go, because I thought maybe I was annoying the guy in some way (although his house was nowhere near, nor was anyone else's, nor were there any cattle or other animals...) and this was how he chose to express his annoyance. I was only about 12 at the time. Now I would go to his house, possibly with the State Police, and ask him what was going on.. but back then I didn't know if I'd done something wrong or not.

Sure would have hurt to hit this thing.. seems kind of nasty now.. no warning, no anything. I think now that he could have at least given us a call, or posted a sign, and we could have worked something out. Afterall, we had a legal easement, and if he wants to mandate how often a vehicle could use the easement it should have been written into the contract I would think. I could have been paralyzed for life, or killed. Sigh..

My dad went up and cut the wire, and that's the last we ever heard of it. If he'd put up anything else, I'm sure my dad would have acted.. I never saw him quite that angry.

 

[TresCrows]

You cannot booby trap people--even if they are in the wrong. The only time one can use deadly force against another human is when you are in fear of your life or your family etc. Stringing wire for the purpose of knocking kids or adults of vehicles is murder if someone gets killed.
The proper thing to do is to post the property, fence the property, put up gates and call the sherrif. Attacking other peoples property even on your property or setting booby traps is illegal, immoral and will get thee into much trouble. I could not imagine myself responsible for killing a couple of young people on a lark. Yeah, people these days are rude, irresponsible and all that and yeah you want to kill them--but not really.
J

 

[cowboydoc]

You cannot booby trap people--even if they are in the wrong.

While I would probably feel bad if someone did get killed I don't think it would be totally out of line for someone to booby trap their own property. That is half of the problem. People that trespass know that for the most part if anything happens the law is on their side. If they knew that by riding where they were not welcome there was a good chance they could be killed or seriously injured I think you'd see alot less of this kind of crap going on. It is their fault. If they hadn't been trespassing to begin with it never would have happened.

I believe it's one of the biggest problems with our country today is that very few people want to be responsible for their actions anymore.

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>I don't think it would be totally out of line for someone to booby trap their own property.</font color=blue>

My gut feeling is to agree; ought to be able to do whatever you want on your own property. But when you think of all the possibilities . . . .. I assume in your part of the country as in Dallas, there are businesses that turn guard dogs loose inside when they close up at night; even companies who bring dogs out to put in businesses at night, then pick them up in the morning. Of course they have signs at the entrances warning that the dogs are in there. Well, quite a few years ago in Dallas a new company started up. They would show up at closing time and release a rattlesnake in your business and come back in the morning to get it, and they put up signs similar to those using dogs./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I think it was our attorney general who decided that was a "booby trap" under the state law 'cause at least dogs usually bark if anyone tries to get it and the snakes wouldn't rattle unless you got too close./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif At any rate, that company didn't last long. And if you booby trap your own place and there's a fire, what if a fireman is the victim of the booby trap? Or a police officer or paramedic if you should happen to call for help? Or a family member you forget to tell? Or . . . , well, you get the idea.

 

[Thomas]

First of all its darn shame about the youngsters.

Not knowing the full circumstances..was the land posted,was the teenager in full control of the snow machine,did the land owner or another intent to do harm etc..One should have seek permission before riding on the land owners land,also just out of safety place a sign or reflectors something like that.

Do keep us posted on the out come.

 

[MossRoad]

<font color=blue>While I would probably feel bad if someone did get killed I don't think it would be totally out of line for someone to booby trap their own property. </font color=blue>

A car crashes on the highway. You are on your snowmobile and witness the carnage. You drive to the nearest house to get help. As you drive down the farm lane an unseen cable takes your head off. You're dead.

That's why there are laws against booby traps. Innocent people get hurt.

Intentionally setting out to injure or kill somone is just plain wrong. We all know it /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Thomas]

<font color=blue>Intentionally setting out to injure or kill someone is just plan wrong. we all know it<font color=blue><font color=black> /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Oh I fully agree!!..and if one finds some sort of satisfaction in doing so,theres a third world country somewhere would like to enlist them and give them a gun and a knife,then send them off and go kill another...okay I'll stop right there.

 

[cowboydoc]

Bird,
I completely agree about innocent people getting hurt.

MossRoad,
I do think it is wrong to purposely try and kill or injure someone unless you are protecting your own land and property. I'm not talking about land mines, bear traps, trip wires and such. I don't think it's wrong to put cables across your property, gates, move matierial around like rocks in the road, stick fences in the trails in plain site, etc. to make it difficult and dangerous for someone to be there. Post it no trespassing, etc. I should have clarified more in my original post what I meant.