Exercising Land Rights vs Snowmobiling Accident

[Boondox]

I agree with TresCrows, but wonder if it was an intentional act. We have a public dirt road that dead ends on our property, and one of my logging roads continues uphill from that point. I have a cable gate strung across my road to keep the youngsters in their 4WD pickups from tearing up my land...but in the winter when skiers and sledders are common I remove the cable to prevent accidents even though it encourages trespassing. If I forgot about it and someone was injured, I'd feel awful...but it would not be intent on my part. Nevertheless, I've quite careful about keeping it well flagged with colored ribbons when it's up, and in taking it down after the first significant snowfall.

Pete

 

[hayden]

Both the cases you guys describe involve clear access rights to certain land. Regradless of whether you agree or disagree with those rights, obstructing someone's access is not right. The barbed wire was very bad, and although I don't personally care for dirt bikes or snow mobiles, you had a right to use that access way and the snow mobiles get to use the roadsides.

 

[hayden]

I think Bird's right that there's just not enough info to really draw a conclusion.

Was the blocked trail a public or private right of way? If it was a private right of way, did the snow mobiler's have the right to access? There's a big difference between someone obstructing ligitimate right of way, and someone blocking off illegal access to private property.

Was the obstruction intended to be harmful? This is obviously highly subjective, but there's a big difference between booby trapping, and blocking access with no intent to harm. Assuming there was no intent to harm, did the person make reasonable attempts to make the obstruction visible?

Here are two extreme hypothetical examples:

1) I have an abandond, but still public road through my property. I get sick of the snow mobiles and dirt bikes gogin through and string up an unmarked, thin wire across the road at neck height. That's a very bad thing to do. Blocking a public right of way, and doing so in a way intended to harm innocent people, regardless of how annoying to me they might be.

2) I have private logging roads off the public road, and do not wish dirt bikes and snow mobiles on my private property. I post around the logging road entrance, and string a cable across the entrance. I put flagging on the cable to make it visible. In my opinion, its tough luck for anyone who runs into the cable. They have no business being there, it's clearly marked, and there's no intent to harm anyone.

 

[hayden]

There's actually a case that's taught in law school on this (or at least it use to be). By the way, I'm not a lawyer, but my father was and I remember this one.

A guy's house keeps getting broken into, so he sets up a shot gun booby trap. The thief breaks in yet again, trips the trap, gets a load of shot, then sues the homeowner and wins.

If the homeowner had sat waiting, and blown the guy's head off when we set foot in the house, he would have been completely in the right, but the booby trap was not OK.

I think the logic behind it is the indiscriminant nature of a trap, but I'm not sure.

 

[RanchMan]

Many (and I do mean many) years ago, a U.S. company actually made a burglar-booby-trap gun. I forget who the manufacturer was. Saw it on an episode of the History Channel's "Tales of the Gun." 'Course it's outlawed now...

Without going in to my usual anti-trespassing tirade, (and because I've already posted a reply on CBN's thread on this subject), since we know virtually nothing about this particular case, I don't think we can judge intent & liability. I will say though that my sentiments (in the hypothetical realm) seem to most closely reflect those that Cowboydoc has put forth though...

 

[JohnMiller3]

Update to story…

Alcohol was involved, all were relatives (cousins), another cousin arrested for supplying the alcohol, the 17 year-old boy was decapitated, the cable also caught his 15 year-old cousin in the neck area…

This information I just got from my oldest daughter, who got a ride to work today with her girlfriend…the victims’ cousin… /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif

 

[MikePA]

John, I just pulled <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.countrybynet.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=landcare&Number=7091&Forum=All_Forums&Words=MikePA&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=7042&Search=true#Post7091>this info</A> from the Channel 9 web site. There's still no indication of where they were riding, i.e., private or public property. That alcohol was involved is really sad. There are so many families involved in this single tragedy for which Christmases will no longer be joyful. /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif

 

[rancar]

I had this very same problem on property I purchased about three years ago. Snowmobilers were using an old town ROW (now abandoned) that crosses my property. They would ride it at night, have parties, throw their beer bottles and cans around, etc. I was thinking of a way to stop this intrusion and marring of the landscape. My attorney told me NEVER, NEVER string a cable across the trail or dig a hidden ditch or put spikes in the roadway. If anyone was ever hurt, I would be held liable and likely suffer serious civil and/or criminal penalties. My solution was I built a wall of wood made out of old utility poles and pressure treated 2x8's across the ROW. I surrounded this fence on both sides with stacks of old logs and slash. I also clearly posted the ROW. In essence, I made it extremely difficult for a snowmobiler or ATV rider to get around.

Result: I haven't had any problem with either snowmobilers or ATV riders since erecting my wall of wood.

Regards,
Bob Ancar
Cambridge, NY

 

[JohnMiller3]

<font color=blue>...private or public property...</font color=blue>

I'm taking an educated guess... it's private property, only because of the rural area...

When I posted this am... I had no idea of the "closeness"... I just felt sick over this tragedy...

This past summer, we invited one of the cousins out to a graduation dinner with my daughter. This girl graduated with my daughter and her family was “too busy” to come and see her at the ceremonies. She was by herself and my girls didn’t want to leave her alone on this great day… She’s a very pretty girl with a beautiful smile that certainly deserved better… than what her parents provided…

 

[Anonymous Poster]

It is indeed a sad thing when a person, especially a young one, loses his life. Whatever the reason.

Please do post whatever details you learn about this as they come out so we can all continue to learn from it...

Bill in Pgh, PA