Exercising Land Rights vs Snowmobiling Accident

Robert_in_NY · Dec 30, 2002

I had problems with a renter who rents from my neigbor. He lived a couple houses down and thought he could ride across posted property(mine) without permission. I could never catch him while he was down there but the TN is big enough to push over some fairly large trees. I blocked off his way in so that he had to go thru our driveway, which is an abandoned road to go down by our pens. I finally had enough of his crap as the kid is 27. I went to their house and talked to his mother who wouldn't let me talk to her 27 year old son who was causing the problems. I explained my problem to her and the fact the guy riding his machine around our pens is spooking the deer and causing them undue stress, as well as the fact that he did not have permission to ride across private property and that I discussed my situation with the Sheriffs and if I continue to have problems they will act on my behalf. He has never been back since.

I do not have a problem with snowmobilers but what you guys do not realize is that about 400 yards behind where he is living is a trail that leads over the entire county. He had to go across Rt. 20 and on to posted land to ride around our pens and fields. That is all he could do since there is no way out unless he goes back across Rt 20. Plus, he never asked for permission. We take people down to see our deer when they ask because we are there to explain to them how to behave around the deer. So when people tresspas onto our land and bother our animals we get kinda upset. We had two of our bucks shot this last summer. We know who did it and he is a 15 year old neigbors kid. Their property borders along where our fences are so we can not stop him from going down there but he has not been back since we caught him down there with a gun. The two animals killed were worth over $5k. I wish there would be much stricter laws regarding trespassing. Most people get a slap on the wrist and that is it. If people have permission to be on someones land, they should abide by the owners wishes. If they don't have permission to be on the land, they should still abide by the owners wishes and stay off the property.

However, the best thing is, the more land you own, the bigger the headaches with trespassers.

cmsedore · Dec 30, 2002

It is a terrible shame.

I will say, however, that of the many things that I contend with in life, snowmobilers are probably one of the more thoughtless groups. I find it unbelievable that someone who (presumably) wouldn't think of driving a car with no muffler onto the neighbor's front lawn at 2am, revving it and holding a yelled conversation with two others doing the same thing, would drive a snowmobile onto my front lawn at 2am, circle several times with heavy throttle, and then proceed to hold a yelled conversation with his or her companions while the snowmobile idled.

I'd be happier if snowmobiles were banned outright or owners were fined $1000 for every instance of trespassing.

-Chris

RanchMan · Dec 30, 2002

I wish there would be much stricter laws regarding trespassing.

You'd like Texas then, at least as far as how it applies to killing deer... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

First time conviction of poaching deer is 6mo-2yrs Jail w/ $1,500-$10,000 fine. Second time conviction is 2yrs-10yrs w/ $2,000-$10,000 fine. Revocation of licenses is in there as well obviously.

'Course that's for poaching. For plain 'ol criminal trespass (without a weapon & depending on the circumstances) it can be anywhere from a $500 fine to $2,000/6mo in jail, but if you are carrying a weapon, you're looking @ 1yr/$4,000.

rozett · Dec 30, 2002

Re: Exercising Land Rights vs Snowmobiling Acciden

There were three snow mobile related deaths in Maine this weekend, including this youngster. It was reported by the news program that Maine law does NOT require a landowner to post signs or warning flags on chains deployed on their property. As I noted in an earlier reply, a lawyer would have to prove that you strung the chain with willful and malicious intent in order for you to be liable.

Personally, I have always posted no trespass signs on and near any baracades that I have erected. It is sad that anyone has to lose their life in this kind of accident.... but my sympathy is very thin for anyone who knowingly and willfully ignores the rights of the landowner.

rozett · Dec 30, 2002

Re: Exercising Land Rights vs Snowmobiling Acciden

I just realized that we are talking about two seperate accidents here. The thread on CBN began with the death of a youngster in upstate New York. But we had a similar fatality here in Maine this weekend. A 17 year-old was killed after running into a marked chain on private property in Gray, Maine.

My replies above relative to the Maine accident.

BigDave · Dec 31, 2002

First off, it's sad when lives are cut short, irregardless of who is to blame. We had a similiar incident locally that took the lives of two teens who were on a 4-wheeler back when I was a teen. In their case it was a barbed wire fence, and they were going pretty fast.

I have a question about tresspassers. I have a trail that leads from my house to school property. Kids riding motorcycles & ATV on the school property (where they shouldn't anyway) would sometimes venture up my trail, and end up in my back yard. I posted my property on the trail, only to have my signs torn down. Apparently, someone didn't like them. So with the help of my tractor, I placed a large stump on the trail. I left a gap large enoungh to walk around the stump, but not enough room for a bike. Since then, I haven't had any unwelcome visitors in my backyard, and my new signs have remained intact. I don't think I booby trapped my trail at all, but with all of these hypothectical discussions, I can see someone hitting that stump at 40mph and breaking their neck. So do I have a booby-trap?

I don't think I can prevent blatant act of stupidity, so with that fact, umbrella issurance helps me sleep at night.

TresCrows · Dec 31, 2002

" believe it's one of the biggest problems with our country today is that very few people want to be responsible for their actions anymore"

Well I figured such a response. I am not going to get preachy. As with our other dissagreement there is always a higher judge. I think one would not have to wait for that judgement, however, as there would certainly be a judgment of responsibility in such a case as we are speaking of here in our courts. J

rancar · Dec 31, 2002

I can see someone hitting that stump at 40mph and breaking their neck. So do I have a booby-trap?

Dave,

I don't think it's a booby trap. You've made the obtruction clear enough. You can always claim this is where you dispose of your unwanted stumps. Why not place a couple more stumps, some wind blown logs, slash, etc. and clearly post like I did. Just make it so physically imposing that any bike rider would be forced to turn around. If anyone ran into it, they would likely be the negligent ones. Above all, consult with your attorney before proceeding.

Bob

JohnMiller3 · Dec 31, 2002

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=87963&category=REGION&newsdate=12/31/2002>Updated story...</A> /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif

wroughtn_harv · Dec 31, 2002

It is so sad. A lot of dreams went down that day.

It is so easy to make it a black and white situation. Bad kid willingly tresspasses and gets what he deserved.

But he sounds like one of us that wasn't lucky.

Chris Ernest was a well-liked and friendly boy who got along with everyone, Gomes said.

"He loved working with his hands and was happiest when he had a project going, like a car to work on," she said.

He also was a valued, thoughtful employee who had worked part time for about six years, said Tremont Lumber store manager Randy Rivenburg.

Ernest was a member of the rental equipment and yard crew and worked seasonally to set up tents for parties. He also loaded lumber, Rivenburg said.

"He was always willing to help anyone and if he was needed he would come in on his days off, even without pay," Rivenburg said. "He will be greatly missed."