Exercising Land Rights vs Snowmobiling Accident

[MikePA]

I grieve with the parents and loved ones of these two young people. However,

Ernest knew the area and led the pair of snowmobiles toward the cable in an apparent effort to go around it, Lt. David Dennin said. Instead, he hit the barrier and was thrown from his vehicle, Dennin said.

This young man knew the area, knew there was a cable there and still hit it. So, it's somewhat immaterial what laws are in effect and whether this was public or private land, posted or not posted.

Why did he hit it?

State Police investigators said Ernest, his cousin and Shane L. Smith, 21, of 40 North Nassau Road, Averill Park, were all drinking beer that Smith provided that night. They then boarded their snowmobiles...

No more, or less, tragic than if they had gotten in a car, or boarded a boat, and had a fatal accident. Particularly appropriate discussion given that it's New Years Eve.

Dear TBNers and CBNers, don't drink and drive....anything.

 

[TresCrows]

I lived in Texas before. I am familiar with and in agreement with the law. I understand it--do YOU?
Further, I will take the high moral ground when it comes to murdering kids and humans. Further, I am not a "pacifist" and like I told someone else, good thing we are not neighbors because I don't think "pacifist" would be the adjective you would use. Oh, go ahead and protect your valauble property, I don't care, in Texas or anywhere else, they will put you in jail if you lop the heads of a couple of kids with booby traps. I hope their parents are "pacifist" because I think I could get into some really aggresive moods if my kids got their heads cut off by some one protecting their property.
Hey, JMIII, I think this thread has degenerated like the coyote thread wherin ravenous coyotes were making the west unsafe for Democracy. If you want to discuss further what I mean by "not good neighbors" and my pacifist nature please feel free to contact me private. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif J

 

[cmsedore]

I probably went a little to far in suggesting outlawing them, as I (some years ago) enjoyed riding them myself.

That said, I think that government should not allow purely recreational motor vehicles on roads if they cannot or will not enforce the laws.

I see no reason why a 40-80HP snowmobile needs to make several times more noise than my 150HP car. I feel the same way about Harleys. That said, if a group of Harley owners parked them on my front lawn and revved them, I suspect I could get them ticketed in short order. I can't seem to get law enforcement to do anything about snowmobiles.

I still think $1000 fine per instance of trespass would end the problem in a hurry.

-Chris

 

[MossRoad]

Could you please post section 9.41?

Never mind, I found it.

<font color=blue>Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
~ (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
~ ~ (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
~ ~ (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
</font color=blue>

 

[MossRoad]

I think the key words in section 9.41 are <font color=blue>reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary. </font color=blue>

"Well, your honor, the guy was riding a snowmobile across my land, so I shot and killed him."

I don't think that would hold up, even in Texas.

 

[JohnMiller3]

Fella’s… I’m truly sorry… /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif

I love this site and certainly didn’t mean to hit the “hot topic button” and incite a riot… /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

When I originally saw this local story… I had interpreted and had the misunderstanding that a “cable had been strung across the trail” as in “the middle of the woods” (as in hidden- and sight unseen)… not at a common road entrance/exit as it appears now (in plain view)…
(and I strongly feel is a big Big BIG difference…)

As this story unfolds, I’ve become affected personally through the “ripple effect” as I find out my daughters are friends with relatives of the young victims. You end up learning the gruesome details and horror of the fatal last moments, and you hear and see first hand of the pain of the surviving families… you otherwise could only imagine.

When my daughters hurt…as all Fathers… I hurt for them.

While I respect everyone’s strong opinions, I pray this doesn’t turn into a “tit for tat” and ask members not to attack each other personally over their beliefs… no matter how “right” you think you are… and how “wrong” the other person appears to be…

 

[RanchMan]

Mossroad -

<font color=blue>"Well, your honor, the guy was riding a snowmobile across my land, so I shot and killed him." I don't think that would hold up, even in Texas.</font color=blue>

Sorry to see you've jumped on the "connect the non-existent dots bandwagon" that Trescrows is driving. Please point out where I EVER advocated shooting a trespasser. Please point out where I EVER advocated setting up booby traps. Please point out where I EVER said that I would or would not use lethal force in defense of property. See, problem is you simply can't because I never stated any such thing. Like Trescrows, you have taken it upon yourself to serve as judge & jury based on tiny tidbits of information - none of which has anything to do with me personally but is simply restating what is in the statutes of the State of Texas.

All I did was respond to the erroneous statements made by Trescrows, and pointed out what the law in Texas says. I never brought up snowmobiles or even a hypothetical example of when (or even if) I would/would not use lethal force to protect property.

This thread has gone from "whadda ya think about this story" to personal beliefs and legal issues about using lethal force in defense of property. If we apply the tidbits of information (and I do mean minuscule) we supposedly know about the incident (again, HUGE lack of facts here), I don't believe that "lethal force" even enters in to the discussion of this case.

Again, I was simply pointing out the error of Trescrows statement. Please don't play hypothetical "connect the dots" and make up stuff that doesn't exist and has never been said. If you want to make up one line case examples and present them as how things would go in a court of law, be my guest. To say they are realistic or even likely to occur without any surrounding information to make judgement is intellectual dishonesty at best.

 

[Harv]

Yeah, I think this thread has ceased being constructive, so let's close it up and start the new year fresh.