EXMARK OR SCAG??

[sperry]

I'm at a point of too much mowing time. I purchased a TMF72" for my tractor, but that is turning out to be too slow. Also having problems getting blades for it. I want to get a Scag or Exmark 60" or 66" XS but just not sure what one to buy. Can sure use some advise.
Thanks Sperry

 

[AlanB]

For me, on those two mowers, it would boil down to which dealer (assuming they are different) I got the best vibe from, and who was willing to walk me into the parts room and show me a pile of belts, blades, filters, spindles and gauge wheels for the mower he was trying to sell me.

I run the exmarks, but would not blink an eye at a Hustler or Scag (or several others for that matter) For us, as a commercial operation, it is usually about getting going again fast, that may or may not be a concern for you.

If it is the same dealer. I would just go with price and model that I felt suited me best. For us, on various lots, we dont go over 60" as scalping and misses become a problem, may not be an issue for your situation though.

 

[Dargo]

If it is the same dealer. I would just go with price and model that I felt suited me best. For us, on various lots, we dont go over 60" as scalping and misses become a problem, may not be an issue for your situation though.

I'd agree with you on both counts. First, either of those mowers should serve you well. Second, I too have found that mowers much larger than 60" end up scalping several spots and are a real pain if the area isn't pretty darn flat. I have an 8' rotary cutter, but I generally don't mow any lower than 8" with it. I mostly mow at about 3 1/2" with my finish mowers. If I go any higher than that, in my area, my grass starts to go to seed and gets stalky; if that is a word.

 

[unit40]

All of my 72" mowers have a lot of adjustable anti-scalp wheels and rollers on them so scalping has never been an issue. With a large deck or even a smaller one for that matter, you need to read the landscape and terrain and mow it accordingly. So look for a big deck with anti-scalp rollers underneath it, in the front and rear, and on the corners. Most commercial high quality machines will have them which virtually eliminates scalping. Plus, don't mow lower than you should.

 

[Dargo]

Most commercial high quality machines will have them which virtually eliminates scalping. Plus, don't mow lower than you should.

Please explain in detail to all of us exactly how a "big" 72 inch deck with rollers (which are also standard on many homeowner machines with 48" decks) will prevent scalping when you must mow over humps in yards. That would require wheels in the center of the middle area of the deck; i.e., where the blades are. I'd like to see how your deck has rollers on the blades, which is what would be required to do what you suggest. Also, when mowing next to inclines, larger decks such as the Woods 990 I have are more prone to dragging against the side of the hill and are too large to do a decent job of mowing directly up and down the hills.

I've owned commercial operations and AlanB currently runs a commercial operation. I'm sure he's purchased numerous mowing machines as I have and that is likely why I agree with him. Lots of experience helps one learn these things.

 

[sperry]

What I'm hearing makes me think 60" is for me. I want the vac system that seems to add 14" in width. Knowing that 74+" is pretty wide for my tree situation and wanting a smooth cut, I guess 60" seems practical. My land has lots of ups, downs, flat areas and many trees to go around. This has too be a better set up than the 72" 3pt mower on my tractor.

Also I'm not sure what bag system to purchase. One has handle pull dumping right from the seat, others have bags to remove. I don't need to bag often, I just don't have alot of time for clean ups. (I just hate using hand rakes! this type of hate started early in my life) So any input about the vac systems available would be greatly appreciated also. Thanks for the comments!
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mower & vac 12 - 14K good advise priceless

 

[AlanB]

Bagging is always an issue, the biggest thing we ran into was getting rid of the bagged product, although I would take all I could get at the moment.

That is probably not a problem for you though.

If I were looking to bag off my mowers, I would probably go with about a $1000 Agri Fab trailer bagger blower dealy that you can get from Rural King or TSC.

You kind of "loose" the ZTR properties when towing a trailer, but the last dedicated baggers I looked at about scared the beejeebus out of me when I saw the prices. For the limited amount we would do, we would just deal with the inconvienence of the trailer action.

That being said, she, who must be obeyed, still would rather just mulch the leaves on site and not deal with the bagger/ vac trailer deal.

 

[unit40]

Please explain in detail to all of us exactly how a "big" 72 inch deck with rollers (which are also standard on many homeowner machines with 48" decks) will prevent scalping when you must mow over humps in yards. That would require wheels in the center of the middle area of the deck; i.e., where the blades are. I'd like to see how your deck has rollers on the blades, which is what would be required to do what you suggest. Also, when mowing next to inclines, larger decks such as the Woods 990 I have are more prone to dragging against the side of the hill and are too large to do a decent job of mowing directly up and down the hills.

I've owned commercial operations and AlanB currently runs a commercial operation. I'm sure he's purchased numerous mowing machines as I have and that is likely why I agree with him. Lots of experience helps one learn these things.

I wouldn't mow over a hump knowing that I would scalp it with any machine. I would have the hump fixed, mow around it. raise/lift and/or feather the deck or something hypothetical. There will always be a situation where your machine, no matter what the size, will be too big for an area you need to mow. If you intend to take your machine somewhere where it shouldn't be, or in a situation where it shouldn't be used, then use something else. Right tool for the right job.

 

[Dargo]

What I'm hearing makes me think 60" is for me. I want the vac system that seems to add 14" in width. Knowing that 74+" is pretty wide for my tree situation and wanting a smooth cut, I guess 60" seems practical. My land has lots of ups, downs, flat areas and many trees to go around. This has too be a better set up than the 72" 3pt mower on my tractor.

I think you'll be happy. If your yard was like a 90 acre golf course fairway a 15 or 20' batwing mower would work. Unfortunately, I really haven't seen any yard that is much over a 1/2 acre that is perfectly smooth. I have finish mowers ranging from 48" to 8'. I think around the 60" is pretty well considered the 'sweet spot' as far as mower size, and your property sounds like it is typical for where a 60" or so deck would work best.

I really haven't done much bagging, so I can't offer any advice there based on actual knowledge and experience. Would a good set of mulching blades work for you? I'm impressed with how much mulching decks and blades have improved in the last several years.

 

[Birdhunter1]

Exmark ad Sag are both great machines, if there is a dealer nearby carryong Toro, hustler, Dixie Chopper, Ferris, Bob Cat, Cub Cadet (only the Tank models) or Grasshopper I would aslo look at them.

For engines I'd go with a Kawasaki or Honda, most manufacturers offer a Briggs and Stratton but I get a bad vibe from them, might just be me but I know you can't hardly beat a Kawasaki or Honda in gas powered small engines.

I use a 52" cut Toro Z449 (I think that is the model) with a 19 hp Kawasaki and it does a great job on hills, thick grass, wet grass etc and the Turboforce deck is one of teh best on the market.

Good luck shopping.

 

[sperry]

Now you guys have brought up some really good points that I didn't realize to consider.

1st deck size 60" decision has been made

2nd mulching blades not sure if this will help when doing fall clean up. I have some large shade trees and think the leaves are gonna have to be collected. In anticipation of this I have explained to the wife how necessary this attachment might be. But with all seriousness is it correct to believe mulching blades will not do the job? I'm planing to use the vac system during leaf season, I hope it is easily removed and attached. Maybe trailer type is the answer, does this type have a deck mounted blower?

3rd power plant My local dealers have mostly B&S in stock. I have had good luck with Kawasaki and Honda with other toys and equipment. What I'm wondering mostly is do you go with air or water cooled? Fuel injected or carb?

Just want to say thanks for the info from all. Especially when it comes before spending over 10K.

 

[unit40]

Protero Inc » Professional Grade Lawn Baggers and Dethatchers


Of course fuel inj. and liquid cooled for longest life and easier starting, smoother running.

 

[bester]

I just retired my tractor and deck for a 61" Scag Wildcat.Its liquid cooled Kawasaki and it kicks ***.I've found no reason to bag clippings as there really arent any.It cuts the grass so much better than a finish deck that it sucked up the piles of wet leaves from last year and spit out a finely ground "mulch"that just vanished.It was GREAT,wish I would have bought it years ago.I was told by my dealer that exmark has sealed bearings and scag can be greased so they naturaly last longer if you dont mind a little maintenance once or twice a year.I think you cant go wrong with either machine but Scag has my vote.

 

[Dargo]

Protero Inc ｻ Professional Grade Lawn Baggers and Dethatchers


Of course fuel inj. and liquid cooled for longest life and easier starting, smoother running.

Yup, I agree. I've never actually compared the life of an air cooled engine to the life of a liquid cooled engine because I just always got the liquid cooled ones. Now I have had some with carbs though. I really never had any starting issues at all with a carb, but I actually have run into some issues on hills and, believe it or not, when turning around fast. I had a mower that would always sputter when I quickly turned around to change directions (remember, when mowing for a living time is everything). The dealer discovered that I when I turned that fast the gas was being slung to one side of the bowl and not being picked up. No major issue, but it annoyed me just the same.

I've also been told that the fuel injected engines will get better fuel economy. I've never had the same mower, one with a carb and one with FI, to test this. It makes perfect sense to me though. I have had identical mowers except one was a 3 cyl Kubota gas and the other was a 3 cyl Kubota diesel (same hp), and I can tell you that the diesel mower would mow just over twice as much on 8 gallons of fuel as the gas powered unit would. I know the diesel engine costs more and diesel fuel costs more, but if you plan on keeping the mower for a long time I believe it is cost effective. As I mentioned, I still have an old Grasshopper diesel mower that has just over 1500 hours on it and it still performs darn near like a brand new one I have.

I never did the math, but the gas mower would run out before finishing the 12 acres around my house. This is with an 8 gallon tank. I could mow the exact same area twice with the diesel and have about a gallon of fuel left. I'm thinking in the 1500 hours on the old Grasshopper that would likely have already paid off the premium to get the diesel engine with gas prices the way they are now. But, I have no fear of the new gas engines not lasting you quite a while. A lot of people here don't like the Briggs, but I know several guys who mow with them and haven't had any problems at all.

Good luck, and have fun, with whatever you get!

 

[AlanB]

On the Vac, this is something along the lines of what I would get, there is a model below this with a 5hp but I think I would probably get the chipper option while I was buying.

Agri-Fab Tow-Behind Mow-N-Vac Chipper/Shredder — 8 HP, Model# 502492 | Chipper/Shredders | Northern Tool + Equipment

And yes, it is vacuuming up the debris, your deck get's it too the discharge chute, then the vac sucks it through the impeller into the trailer deal.

I am on a different sheet on the motors then Dargo, although, with fuel prices going the way they are I may have to rethink it some.

IMO, gas, carb and air cooled are "good enough" and I am not willing to pay the premium for the other things. They definetely have their advantages, but for us, in our situation we do lots of small to mid size yards, we get more windshield time and trimming time then mowing time so I would rather keep my initial investment down.

Also with a gas engine, if I get really pissed at it, I can kick the dang thing off and get a brand new one for around $1500 to $2000 with full warranty.

For us as well, carbs, air, gas, are very simple and easy for me to understand and troubleshoot. Get's me going quicker. The more complicated the machine, the more there is to break, and the more likely I will have a hard time troubleshooting it.

Just worked on a Scag with fuel injection on a Kohler, we ended up doing factory tech support and swapping some controllers off a new mower to diagnose and get the guy (commercial cutter) going.

Your pricing kind of scare's me a bit.

I think I can get the Lazer Z that we run (I forget what they call it now, it would be the "old" model) for about $7500 (they call it the "advantage series" I think, here is a link, Lazer Z AS riding lawn mower for the landscape professional from Exmark. and I am pretty sure I saw a hustler for about the same price.

As to the Brigg's, I would not quite be ready to go there yet. For the 5 or 8 hp on the blower, fine, no problem, but on my mower I would rather have Kawi, Kohler or Honda. I have cussed my Kawi on occasion (they put the freaking PCV valve in the MIDDLE of the dang engine) and had literal fits out of 2 kohlers that both broke rods but all in all they are well proven engines and their are thousands if not millions of them out there. The new, bigger commercial Briggs in my opinion have just not proven themselves yet so I would not go there.

Hanna and I were talking last night about our mowers, and I think one Exmark is about 7 years old, and one is 8 and the dixon is about 10 years old.

Dixon has had 3 motors, but the first one failed in the first year, the second failed first run, and the 3 has been there 9+ years. Exmarks motors are still original, Kawi and Kohler.

If I did have the option I would get the Donelson (sp) air filter setup but I do not have it on any of my mowers.

Good luck whichever way you go, but I would think long and hard about going past $7500.

 

[sperry]

Well finally did it!

Just brought home a new Exmark Lazer Z 60" with 27 hp Kawasaki. I can't wait to find out how much mowing time it will save me. Sure seems to be a learning curve to operate it. The Exmark dealer is close by and seemed professional so I figured thats the way to go. (support small dealer)

My first small cut looked like I should adjust the anti scalp wheels lower. I have very uneven ground here in VT. A cut mark was left behind in spots where the height of the deck varied coming from different directions. The scalp wheels are set in the high position, is this the norm? And is this the proper remedy?

I appreciate all the comments and advise. (past and future)
Thanks!

Sperry
TYM 300 HST KUBOTA 7610 Exmark Lazer Z 60"

 

[sperry]

Well finally did it!

Just brought home a new Exmark Lazer Z 60" with 27 hp Kawasaki. I can't wait to find out how much mowing time it will save me. Sure seems to be a learning curve to operate it. The Exmark dealer is close by and seemed professional so I figured thats the way to go. (support small dealer)

My first small cut looked like I should adjust the anti scalp wheels lower. I have very uneven ground here in VT. A cut mark was left behind in spots where the height of the deck varied coming from different directions. The scalp wheels are set in the high position, is this the norm? And is this the proper remedy?

I appreciate all the comments and advise. (past and future)
Thanks!

Sperry
TYM 300 HST KUBOTA 7610 Exmark Lazer Z 60"

 

[AlanB]

Yes, it would be the proper remedy, I "THINK" that ours are set one down from the top hole, but honestly cannot remember.

There should be a little chart on the deck (a sticker) that shows what hole to put the wheel in, corresponding to how high you normally cut.

I will look at ours if I remember tonight and verify, but remember, a lot of what we do is a compromise as we go to different lawns, mown at different heights constantly.

Hope you enjoy yours and it works out well for you.

Added on edit, you will probably also improve against scalping somewhat with practice and experience, but there are some places where even the 60's are a bit big.