External pump or tractor hydraulics for backhoe??

[kneedeep]

Trying to chose the right equipment and need some advice.

The Mahindra 3510 Hydraulic pump is rated at 7.87 gpm and the steering is 3.57 gpm.

Does the steering run off the Hydraulics or does it have a separate pump

Would the tractor operate a backhoe requiring 5-7 gpm effecientl

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

Trying to chose the right equipment and need some advice.

The Mahindra 3510 Hydraulic pump is rated at 7.87 gpm and the steering is 3.57 gpm.

Does the steering run off the Hydraulics or does it have a separate pump

Would the tractor operate a backhoe requiring 5-7 gpm effecientl

The 3510 has a separate pump for the power steering, and should provide 7.87 gpm to the backhoe.

 

[kneedeep]

Thanks Galen,

I appreciate how you and Dave help people with problems. You guys are a credit to your proffesion and your customers should be thankful to have either of you as dealers.

I wish you guys were my dealers.

Thanks again

 

[Reg]

Trying to chose the right equipment and need some advice.

The Mahindra 3510 Hydraulic pump is rated at 7.87 gpm and the steering is 3.57 gpm.

Does the steering run off the Hydraulics or does it have a separate pump

Would the tractor operate a backhoe requiring 5-7 gpm effecientl

Unless you are a very experienced back-hoe operator I doubt that you would want/need anything like 5 GPM.
I find back hoe work to require quite a lot of "feathering" of the controls, even with my engine speed down around 1500 or so.
Full speed swings and sudden stops, even with the bucket empty, are WAY too uncomfortable when the boom and dipper are out there.
For what I do and how I do it hoe work isn't about moving a lot of material quickly, mostly it is about "picking" - often at roots and rocks.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

I note that you have asked this/these questions on multiple forums...one question you have not asked is how much hyd fluid should I need for a specific effort?? ie. if you are going to run a hoe that requires 8gpm flow, how big of a resevoir do I need to not heat up the unit to "paint blistering" level??? If you plan on running a hoe off a tractor hyd system, you better have at least 11/12 gal resevoir in your tractor to keep it from heating up too much///I know with my Bradco 511 w/it's own pump/res, that with about 1 hours usage, I can smell the hyd fluid getting heated up...that hoe takes 11 gpm to run and it has its own 15 gallon res....and as I previously stated in another thread, I only run it at 1200 rpm on the tach, which is only about 300 rpm on the PTO...If you have to run your tractor at 1600 to 2000 rpm to get enough juice to run off the tractor hyd system, you will be able to fry eggs on it within 15 minutes....not a sermon, just a thought....BobG in VA

 

[Reg]

I note that you have asked this/these questions on multiple forums...one question you have not asked is how much hyd fluid should I need for a specific effort?? ie. if you are going to run a hoe that requires 8gpm flow, how big of a resevoir do I need to not heat up the unit to "paint blistering" level??? If you plan on running a hoe off a tractor hyd system, you better have at least 11/12 gal resevoir in your tractor to keep it from heating up too much///I know with my Bradco 511 w/it's own pump/res, that with about 1 hours usage, I can smell the hyd fluid getting heated up...that hoe takes 11 gpm to run and it has its own 15 gallon res....and as I previously stated in another thread, I only run it at 1200 rpm on the tach, which is only about 300 rpm on the PTO...If you have to run your tractor at 1600 to 2000 rpm to get enough juice to run off the tractor hyd system, you will be able to fry eggs on it within 15 minutes....not a sermon, just a thought....BobG in VA

I think the general rule of thumb is a gallon of reservoir per gpm of pump output.
I have always taken that to mean actual flow, i.e. if you throttle the engine down to where the pump is only putting out 3 or 4 GPM then a 5 gallon reservoir should be adequate.
Oil also heats when forced through flow restricters, so if you have any of those in the system (to slow movement down) that may cause unreasonable temperatures.
BTW, inadequate hoses can also contribute to high temps.

This may be major or minor, but the mass of iron that most tractors carry their hydraulic oil in (the rear axle) probably acts as a very good heat sink and radiator, there are oil/water heat exchangers in the engine's radiator too, at least on SOME tractors.

OTOH separate reservoirs tend to be max volume for minimum surface, which is close to worst case for heat dissipation.

 

[kneedeep]

Yes,
I have asked this question in other forums. I almost always receive replies such as yours, Bob from VA.
What I have also received is the opinions, good and perhaps not so good from people such as yourself. Whether you are a 'pro' or a 'rookie', you have a opinion that is either based on personal knowledge or learned from other sources.
What I do know is that all that knowledge, good or bad, after being sorted through in my head and filed under the correct heading, has allowed me to make a decision concerning the purchase of a backhoe attachment for my tractor.
Had I not asked the same questions in different ways, I would not have the understanding to make a educated decision. My final decision is about $2K lesss expensive than my original plan.
The members of this forum combined have more knowledge than any single one of you. I would not be very smart not to ask you people to help me with my quest for knowledge.

I asked, you answered, I thank all of you! :thumbsup:

 

[yanmars]

I have a Mahindra 4510 but no backhoe on it. I have a Yanmar 336d tractor (about 30 HP) that I have a PTO Woods 750 backhoe on it. The tank holds a bit over 5 gallons as I recall. I never used it hard but it has functioned well for me.

 

[Reg]

I note that you have asked this/these questions on multiple forums...one question you have not asked is how much hyd fluid should I need for a specific effort?? ie. if you are going to run a hoe that requires 8gpm flow, how big of a resevoir do I need to not heat up the unit to "paint blistering" level??? If you plan on running a hoe off a tractor hyd system, you better have at least 11/12 gal resevoir in your tractor to keep it from heating up too much///I know with my Bradco 511 w/it's own pump/res, that with about 1 hours usage, I can smell the hyd fluid getting heated up...that hoe takes 11 gpm to run and it has its own 15 gallon res....and as I previously stated in another thread, I only run it at 1200 rpm on the tach, which is only about 300 rpm on the PTO...If you have to run your tractor at 1600 to 2000 rpm to get enough juice to run off the tractor hyd system, you will be able to fry eggs on it within 15 minutes....not a sermon, just a thought....BobG in VA

Sorry to say BobG, but I think you may have a problem with your particular set up.
As I mentioned in a previous reply, independent systems don't benefit from the thermal mass of the tractor's rear axle, or a heat exchanger in the radiator (not ALL tractors have that, but many do).
I think Surplus Center (Burden Sales) has a heat exchanger for very small money, about $20 IIRC.
You could probably get something like that plumbed into your hydraulics and radiator coolant circuits for well under $100 with hoses and fittings.

Just a suggestion, I'm not trying for "sermon" status either (-:

 

[kneedeep]

Unless you are a very experienced back-hoe operator I doubt that you would want/need anything like 5 GPM.
I find back hoe work to require quite a lot of "feathering" of the controls, even with my engine speed down around 1500 or so.
Full speed swings and sudden stops, even with the bucket empty, are WAY too uncomfortable when the boom and dipper are out there.
For what I do and how I do it hoe work isn't about moving a lot of material quickly, mostly it is about "picking" - often at roots and rocks.

Ran backhoes and loaders many years ago, my experience is with commercial equipment and not Ag units. I know a Ag unit will not perform like a commercial hoe and I will not treat it like I did the old JD 310. I will be digging pretty hard and not picking and feathering it so a quality unit is required. I also will be working machine hard hours on weekends vs the old days of a running machine day in and day out.
Just trying to get info to pick a unit that will compliment my tractor and be able to handle the job with out going with a commercial hoe