F150 Suspension

RobertN · Sep 21, 2006

What kind of "off road" are you talking about here?

If you are running fire roads and stuff, then you might stiffen it with shocks, or maybe airbags. But if you go "OFF ROAD" then you want extra flex. Sway bars will limit your flex and axle articulation... Might help handling on a fire road a little, but when you come to the creepy crawlies, you will want flex. That's when you want to disconnect the sway bars.

N80 · Sep 21, 2006

Yes, I realize that and I doubt that I'll put a rear antisway on. Not doing a lot of crawling. And technically not 'off-road'. More along the lines of gravel, dirt and narrow but bumpy woods roads. No rock crawling, no mud bogging, no monster hills. Occasionally I'll drive down some glorified fire lanes on some leased property, tough when wet but just bumpy as heck when dry. Also spend a fair amount of time out in grassy pastures. Fairly smooth but a firmer ride would be better there too.

But from my perspective, just driving in to my cabin, maybe 1/4 of a mile, is miserable. I don't have the money to pave or even gravel the road right now and it is fairly miserable driving in, primarily from the back and forth swaying. Once you get onto the woods roads if there is more than one bump the whole truck wants to 'hop'. A lot of it is my personal preference in how a truck should handle but it just drives me nuts. It makes it so you _have_ to crawl to keep from getting thrown around. My wife's SUV ( Nissan Murano....its just a car, but don't tell her that) handles MUCH better in terms of ride quality on the dirt roads.

RobertN · Sep 21, 2006

I did really well with the Rancho adjustables. But, if I wanted a change, I had to get out and reach past the tire to change it. I was able to find a sweet spot that worked well for 90% of my driving.

I know for airbags, I have friends with cab over campers. They run airbags, and fill/empty the airbags as the camper is loaded/unloaded. Never seen them adjust them for empty ride(these are 3/4 and 1 tons Ford and Dodge).

HGM · Sep 21, 2006

Lots of advice here, thought I'd add my $.02 since you asked

.... Anyhow,Robert is absoloutly correct about the swaybars, maybe you could try to disconnect the front bar to see if it might help some.. What you are describing sounds to me like the suspension is too stiff for your liking.. The last thing I would think you need is to stiffen it up with air bags or a stiffer shock.. The Rancho adjustables are probably the best option here, in my opinion because you can adjust them to your liking rather than an off the shelf "I think this wil work" standard setting.. The Bilstiens are awsome shocks and hard to beat, but its a "real truck" feel that you dont apear to like.. You said you are more comfortable in a carlike (or Toyota truck) ride, so its going to be difficult to fix this... Contrary to popular belief, shocks dont stop the side to side motion, they are there to dampen the rebound..It sounds to me like you dont like the lack of rebound,

it is fairly miserable driving in, primarily from the back and forth swaying. Once you get onto the woods roads if there is more than one bump the whole truck wants to 'hop'

.. So, a softer shock might be up your alley(even a worn out set as odd as it may sound)..

Again, its the "real" truck 1/2ton suspension that you dont like(IMO).. The springs are your problem in my mind.. Good luck, but you may just have to get used to it..

monkeymonk · Sep 22, 2006

I DO NOT mud bog,rock crawl...or anything i just go home or to friends houses.I installed air bags in my 150 and I hardly even feel the wash boards or ruts. The front end is fine wish bone with shocks feels O.K after the rear air bag instalation 4 years ago.AIR bags do not stiffen the rear susspension when filled properly.If i fill the rear to max it will be stiff Also don't have the double blatter bags.The bags I use are single blatter tall, firestone makes em double blatter 1 ton bags would be stiff but if you get ones for an F-150 youd be fine. springs are another issue.

HGM · Sep 22, 2006

monkeymonk said:
I DO NOT mud bog,rock crawl...or anything i just go home or to friends houses.I installed air bags in my 150 and I hardly even feel the wash boards or ruts. The front end is fine wish bone with shocks feels O.K after the rear air bag instalation 4 years ago.AIR bags do not stiffen the rear susspension when filled properly.If i fill the rear to max it will be stiff Also don't have the double blatter bags.The bags I use are single blatter tall, firestone makes em double blatter 1 ton bags would be stiff but if you get ones for an F-150 youd be fine. springs are another issue.

Air bags are nothing more than springs.. Controlable, compact springs.. To add springs to a suspension will stiffen it.. I dont mean to contradict you, but you do have a totally different truck(even though it is a Ford).. Your truck was aimed to compete with GM(notice its the same suspension) for a soft carlike ride, did a good job and they rode nicely as well as worked pretty well.. Ford came out with the '04(latest generation F-150) in order to satisfy the customers who wanted a "truck" rather than a soft carlike feel out of a truck.. They delivered.. Now, those that are more familliar with(or comfortable with) the '97-03 Ford, most GM's or import trucks are unhappy with the firmer ride of the new truck.. I havent had the oportunity to spend allot of time in the new trucks, but an old friend of mine was in town last week and we went off road at the hunting property and I can see what this thread is about.. The trucks are stiff, but it is a truck... The little rumble strips or ripples in a dirt road should be felt less with the new trucks because of shock possition, but the big 1-2'(or more)ruts will definitly move the whole truck because of this stiffness.. So to soften the ride, you would need softer springs.. Ever drive a 3/4 or 1T truck to compare it to a 1/2 ton? Its the same thing... Moving from a 1/4ton Toy truck to a 1/2 ton should feel considerably different..

RobertN · Sep 22, 2006

monkeymonk said:
I DO NOT mud bog,rock crawl...or anything i just go home or to friends houses.

You are up past where my Uncle used to live. He was about 10 miles east of McCloud. He had about 4 miles of dirt road to get out to his place; out in the woods with no power. He had telephone, but used a generator, some solar, and some LPG. Anyways, a few miles of gravel washboard were the norm for him every day(he commuted to the Shasta City where he was a heavy equipment mechanic for the county). He hurt his back really bad a few years ago, and wound up moving in to McCloud.

Been on roads like that in Wyoming too. County roads that were gravel.

Actually, a lot of those roads are better than a lot of California's regular roads. Instead of having signs "Caution Rough Road" near construction sites and repair areas, California should simply place those signs at all of the Oregon/Nevada/Mexico borders...

One time I was in Indio, out near Palm Springs. We had to run across the LA basin to Ventura and up to SantaBarbara. Oh My!!! We were in a '99 Ford F250 crewcab 4x4 diesel. I was sore after that. All the expansion joints in that concrete maze of highway!

I could see where your running up in the hills would necessitate some suspension tuning.

monkeymonk · Sep 23, 2006

HGM said:
Air bags are nothing more than springs.. Controlable, compact springs.. To add springs to a suspension will stiffen it.. I dont mean to contradict you, but you do have a totally different truck(even though it is a Ford).. Your truck was aimed to compete with GM(notice its the same suspension) for a soft carlike ride, did a good job and they rode nicely as well as worked pretty well.. Ford came out with the '04(latest generation F-150) in order to satisfy the customers who wanted a "truck" rather than a soft carlike feel out of a truck.. They delivered.. Now, those that are more familliar with(or comfortable with) the '97-03 Ford, most GM's or import trucks are unhappy with the firmer ride of the new truck.. I havent had the oportunity to spend allot of time in the new trucks, but an old friend of mine was in town last week and we went off road at the hunting property and I can see what this thread is about.. The trucks are stiff, but it is a truck... The little rumble strips or ripples in a dirt road should be felt less with the new trucks because of shock possition, but the big 1-2'(or more)ruts will definitly move the whole truck because of this stiffness.. So to soften the ride, you would need softer springs.. Ever drive a 3/4 or 1T truck to compare it to a 1/2 ton? Its the same thing... Moving from a 1/4ton Toy truck to a 1/2 ton should feel considerably different..

Think its a matter of opin on this one ? plenty of my buddies have the "new rides" and they ride like new. they did change a few things but my #7700 rear stock susspension is still stiffer than the new 150 compare the springs on a #7700(3/4-1/2) 150 and a new one. Many municipalities/county depts use the #7700. The bags i use make it feel like the back is floating but not swaying. Now on my diesel crew i have add on springs, now thats stiff.I cant even rock the rear to check the shocks.very diffrent than than bags, though both are adjustable.softer springs like a tacoma?or? those trucks are so light they slide and bounce even with a load on they move.

Robert you are right about the joints I drove down to S.F. today, the first time in 8 mounths and man those susspension joints were brutal even worse with the add on springs. AH aha aha aha aha aha wheres the bathroom.

N80 · Sep 24, 2006

HGM said:
You said you are more comfortable in a carlike (or Toyota truck) ride, so its going to be difficult to fix this... Contrary to popular belief, shocks dont stop the side to side motion, they are there to dampen the rebound.

I appreciate the advice but I don't think you read my post right, or at least I didn't make my point well. First, there is nothing car-like about the ride of any of the Nissan or Toyata trucks I've owned...at least not prior to about 1995. Second, its the F150 that rides more like car. And its made that way because that's what most F150 buyers want, even the one's who buy 4wd. It's great on the highway, sorry off-road. But I'll concede that the springs might be quite firm (it rarely bottoms out even when hopping along a trail). But that really isn't the issue. The problem is that they seem to be too lightly damped. If you recall from the original post, the issue that I'm having problems with is that once you hit a bump it just keeps on bouncing and bouncing. I don't mind the initial bounce. The continuous bouncing also dimishes control.

Removing the front anti-sway bar would greatly amplify the problem of 'sway'. The thing rocks like a dingy in a storm as it is. And I understand that shocks dampen oscillation. But they will dampen any oscillation, even if it is from the truck rocking side to side. So better shocks will surely help.

Of all the options I think either the Bilsteins or the Ranchos look best to me.

When I wasting money on hopping up my Nissan years ago, someone made firm polyurethane (or something) bushings to replace the rubber ones on the front anti-sway bar (and shocks). It seemed to help but it was probably my imagination (kind of like when your truck seems to run better after you wash it.) ;-)

But just to make it clear, I'm looking for firm _and_ responsive, which is what I consider a 'real' truck. I'm trying to get away from wallowing and unending bounce.

Egon · Sep 24, 2006

Stiffer shocks and springs that are a little stiffer variable rate may get you closer to what you want.

I beleive earlier on you mentioned larger tires? If so they will increase the unsprung weight and increase front suspension component wear.

Also note that the rear is just as important as the front.