Fact vs. Fiction. Tractor Myths?

[slowzuki]

Is the Mistral sold here in the US not the same as the one in Europe? THe one I saw in Canada (same as on the US website) looked like a small ag tractor and had a big price tag on it.

 

[ZJ_HR]

It is small ag tractor. Don't really know are the Euro end US version equal. I think yes.
I have just pic of NH TCE, what is 100%equal to Mistral, just a little darker in colour than Landini is.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

A BIT OFF THREAD HERE, but back to Getut's problem:

Getut . . . I think JerryG may have hit part of your answer, small wheels/tires are a often a culprit. And KiotiJohn may be partially correct in how you are using your tractor. He is correct that if you are stuck you really don't want to jam down the HST pedal and expect to get out. On the other hand I think his rules about the use of HI versus LOW range are extreme. I regularily mow and do other chores in HI range, I stay out of low range unless I am digging, somehow engaging the ground, or climbing/decending the hills.

I have several places were there are "dips" in my property for drainage, I've never had a problem crossing them in HI range. KiotiJohn referred to your 4" dip as a little ditch, IF your's are like mine, they are nothing like real ditches. The dips are about 4" deep and about 8" across; just about the right size to get a tire stuck. Mine run across the property in a couple spots, they were put in to drain water over to the creek; heck when the grass gets a bit long you can't even see them, hardly something I'd call a ditch, but hit one while driving a bit too fast and you bounce up in the seat! LOW range is simply too slow for mowing and light duty FEL work, no need for it when using a PHD or hauling a sprayer or a wagon.

My neighbor across the road has a little Kubota BX1500(?) and he and I were discussing our tractors and he only uses low range when he takes his tractor down to scrape the ditch with a back blade. Now KiotiJohn does make an excellent point about finessing the pedal, but I suspect you may want to have the dealer check out the HST bypass valve setting. The CK20 is a nice small tractor, it would be a shame if it is performing properly and can't get past a tiny dip in your yard. Then again this may be one of those times when my theory of more HP in a small tractor is a good thing, ditto the comments about excess weight beyond what is needed. Your CK20 and my TC24 are very similar in size, your's weighs a little more than mine (about 300#) and has 3 less HP. It might be that the little bit of excess weight and the ~12% lower HP rating are the contributing factors in why the dip in your lawn can't be crossed. But to be honest, I hope that is not what prevents you from getting across the dip in your lawn, I still suspect the HST byplass setting.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I regularily mow and do other chores in HI range )</font>

Though I don't have a kioti.. I mow in a high range on my NH... I usually mow in 5th gear, which is 1st and hi on my tractor. If the ground was just a tad flatter.. I could mow 2/h
No lack of power either.. if the edge of the mower catches a small tree.. say something inthe 2-3" range.. the tree goes over..

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The CK20 is a nice small tractor, it would be a shame if it is performing properly and can't get past a tiny dip in your yard. )</font>

I agree.. that tractor should have enough power to turn on it's back axle. a 4" dip should be nothing more than a wild ride.. not a stalling point.

Soundguy

 

[Dargo]

I'm certainly not knocking Kioti or any other tractor, I only want to comment on the "size / power" issue. I've noticed that what I personally want is a lot of HP, but not a really big tractor. There are lots of great bargains to be had on large ag tractors in the 60 to 100 HP range, but they are too big for me. As of now I only have about 12 acres (working on 120 more, but we are not really close yet...). It doesn't seem that I was satisfied with any tractor I had (several JD's 2 NH, and now 2 'botas) until I hit the 50 HP range.

Some may think that to take care of 10 acres (2 acres of my property is heavily wooded) I don't need 50 HP. My mower doesn't bog down, I can turn my 72" tiller, I can pull my 2 bottom plow, and I can bury my loader into a hill and rip out a bucket full of dirt. Other than turning the 72" tiller, and pull the 2 bottom plow, I could do all those other things with a 20 HP tractor, I just had to do it slower or use the proper "technique", especially with the loader. The first loader I had was on a Cat 955 that had 90 hp and obviously was on tracks. I learned loader work with that machine. You could still bury the bucket and overload it, but not usually. That is the way I like my machines; to do what I want them to do without having to use a certain "technique" to get the job done. For me, it just takes more power. Too much? Naw! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[getut]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It's a shame to keep reading that your tractor is crap because you're not using it right. )</font>

I have never stated that my tractor is crap. The engine seems solidly built but underpowered for the frame. Not a big issue because every tractor in the US market has the same problem IMO. The frame is world class. I don't think there is a more solid frame out there and that is the main reason I decided on Kioti. My particular HST unit IS however crap at the moment. I make no claim that all of them are that way but mine is until it gets fixed.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( When you're in high range and trying to go over that little ditch, you're probably also giving it full pedal which is like putting a gear tractor into it's highest gear and all of a sudden giving it full throttle and expecting it to perform at it's best. In high range, if you must try going over things better suited to low range, at least ease up on the pedal and give the engine a chance to get into it's best torque stance. I think you'll find the tractor works much better if you learn to finesse the pedal a little better. )</font>

You are assuming an awful lot. I mow in high range. I should not have to go across a 4" ditch at either 3-5 mph to carry some momentum to get through it in high range or change to low range to get through it. I know how to work the HST pedal, but the pedal issue is moot when it won't move at any input level on the pedal. I performed a test last night. If I am sitting on my concrete driveway and I ease the rear wheels up again a 2 x 4 sitting on the concrete driveway wide dimension down (just so there is no confusion). The tractor will not pull itself over the 2 x 4 in high range. I don't care how much you defend... that is not right. Until that is fixed I will say to anyone that my HST unit is crap.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Please take no offense at this observation, it's only that I know what the tractor can do, and I can tell how you're using it from what you type. Give my suggestions a try and see if it's not better. If your still having these problems, then the valve problem that has been detected in some CK20s may just be the problem. )</font>

John, there is no offense taken but how can you tell how I am using it??? I know that my tractor will not move at ANY pedal input level. You know what YOUR tractor (and probably most others) will do. Mine will not.

I know enough to know when there is a problem. What is really going to hack me up though is if I go get the tractor tested a second time and they still tell me it is performing within parameters. The 2" x 4" test I did infuriated me. Other work in low range is quite aggravating. I'm sorry but I feel that a tractor should ALWAYS be able to at least spin tires just about no matter what load is on it. It is too easy to stall my tractor, even in low range. Maybe low range should be lower. But when it won't even attempt to move forward (either spinning or stalling the motor) then to me something is wrong. My tractor will neither spin tires nor lug the engine even in low range... it just quits moving at all... no matter where I have the pedal.

That covers specifics to my tractor. Now to general tractor philosophy. Even if my CK20 were performing at full expectations it would still be anemic compared to the Landini. Going fully from specs, that is what I personally feel the CK20 SHOULD have been. If the Landini were the exact same tractor offered in an HST and with a FEL. It would be approaching tractor heaven for me. I like Kioti, but to make out like it (or ANY OTHER ) manufacturer is perfect is ludicrous.

Any intelligent person would most likely say that power is the weakest point for Kioti. That point is un-arguable. I say it is un-arguable because compared to other manufacturers it is fact. It is not necessarily a bad thing and it fits the needs (or wallet) of some people (myself included), therefore it fills a niche. That previous statement is also fact. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive. It is not bashing, it is not even necessarily bad. It is simply a fact and Kioti could do better in that specific area. So, I continue with my statement. Model for model... Kioti would be BETTER machines if they had 50% more power. Fact: If a thing is not perfect, then it has room for improvement.

Can you argue that fact?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Oh Robert, you have opened Pandor's Box and now I fear for your life. I have tried, as a non-Kioti owner, to say what you just wrote, and I have been flamed for saying those same things (good tractor but low power to weight/size ratio). I fear that you will be voted out of the Kioti lovers club, banished to some far away land where no Korean tractors exist, and generally beaten about the head with a wet noodle that contains only grains harvested using Big 3 equipment. Heck, I bet Kioti doesn't even give you a logo hat now that you made some realistic observations about your own machine!

But like I said before, and like your 2x4 (with the wide side down so that nobody is confused) test shows, I think there is a HST valve issue with your machine.

 

[TBrown]

I live in upstate New York, a bit to the north and east of the major vineyard and orchard regions, but sometimes these vineyard tractors show up on the used tractor lots around here. They're usually bought at auctions in the finger lakes area, and usually they get stuck in with all the compacts. At first glance they look similar, but I've got to echo what some of the others have said, especially EquipmentJunkie, they're really a different breed. I stopped to look at a couple this spring, the operators platform was extremely cramped, I could barely find a place for my admittedly oversized feet. Gear tractors, no shuttle, and high horsepower for the size. I'm certain one was a Zetor, but I did a google search and didn't find any info that they make orchard tractors, so I may not be remembering correctly, but I was told it was a 60 hp tractor. Built like a tank, not something you'd want to mow your lawn with.

I think the dealer was just telling it like it is, and most probably wouldn't try and talk Joe Homeowner into buying one, as they're not meant for the type of work most people buy a compact to do.

BTW, the Landini Mistral is marketed as a compact tractor. Its sister, the McCormick GX is available with Hydrostatic. Landini owns Valpadana, and they manufacture vineyard tractors similar to the Antonio Carrera's.

Valapdana

 

[CMunger]

Buhler/Allied supplys the loaders for the Landini Mistrals, I have pictures, not sure how to post them
Chuck M.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The engine seems solidly built but underpowered for the frame. Not a big issue because every tractor in the US market has the same problem IMO. )</font>

I disagree. My tractor seems to have excess power for its frame size..

Soundguy