Family Farm - A Question

   / Family Farm - A Question #41  
After all the exra info, I will go further and say let it go. There is no possibility of you properly looking after the land from a distance, and I know from looking at places here, some of which I know very well, because I have visited from time to time, that absentee owners end up with a sorrowful looking neglected place. One poster on here (forget which post) has told us he is an absentee owner and scrub is taking over. The land loses its value, it looks terrible, neighbours begin to complain, some over zealous person decides you have to be forced into cleaning it up, etc.

That was an admirable post for Piston to make, and it takes a man to write a post like that, but he still has that hankering that somebody else might have the same feelings as him about keeping a piece of land in the family. They might, but why would they? What are they going to do with it? Few people are prepared to live off a few acres and forego today's lifestyle. What will it be like in another 50 years? Remember Dolly's "Coat of many colours"? Do you want your kids, or grand kids to be treated the way she was?
 
   / Family Farm - A Question #42  
:banghead: D'oh!

Dave, that was some pretty poor delivery on my part. I didn't mean it to come across as offensive but reading back what I wrote it does seem like I was attacking you personally. I can see why you took it the way you did and and I'll be more careful about that in the future. :thumbsup:

I was under the impression that the OP was looking for opinions on what to do in his situation, with the main focus of the 'situation' was that it was a hard decision based on the fact that he really cares about the land staying in the family, and cares about heritage of it as being part of his family for generations. If that wasn't important to him then it would be an easy decision.

I might be a little "too" opinionated regarding accepting the land, because land itself, and especially family history of the land, is very important to me. I will stand by my opinion that if at all possible, to accept the land from his uncle even if that means having to "let it go" for a while. It's very possible that one of Jeff's grand children will want to live on that land one day, and it's very possible that one of the things Jeff would enjoy most as a grandfather, is seeing his grand children fixing up that old "family farm" that he has such fond memories of as well. It's hard to tell what the future will bring, but one thins is for sure, once that land is out of the family, it will very likely never be back in.... :confused3:

My grandfather (on my father's side) bought some property in 1964 in NH. My father and his brothers remember playing in the woods as teenagers and taking care of the blueberry fields. They have tons of stories about that land and the home that is on it. My whole childhood life, I would go visit my grandfather for a few weeks in the summers, and visit on weekends with my uncle during the school year. I have tons of memories growing up on that land as well. I learned a lot of my backwoods skills on that family land.
None of my grandfather's children have any interest in the land. Like you, they could care less who owned it before them (that's not a bad thing, just different than the way I look at it). My grandfather knew that none of them wanted it. When I was young(er) my grandfather asked me to promise him something, he wanted me to promise that I would try my hardest to keep the land in the family when he was gone. I gave him my word. I'm now the only person who cares about that land, who goes up there to maintain and manage it. Sometimes I can't get up there for many months at a time, maybe close to a year now that I have children of my own.

I envision giving the land to my kids someday (and yes, maybe they'll sell it to a developer and make money on it, who knows) and I hope that my grand kids and great grand kids will play on that land. It may be more important to me than others but that is just my experience. I think I put myself in Jeff's "grandchildren's shoes" sortspeak. I picture one of his grand kids someday saying "thank god grandpa saved our family farm from being lost 40 years ago".

I have even more ties to my grandparents land on my mother's side, but I won't bore you guys with the history of that as well, as it would take many pages. In short though, I'm now living in a house that was once part of our family's 200 acre farm, that goes back to 1796, and for some people "who cares?" is the first thing they say, but for me, that's important.

I guess I'm taking this situation too personally, and should be more open minded from other's opinions where land passed down for generations means nothing to them. It appears important to the OP however, and it's always good to see the "other side" and get opinions both ways.

Again, I didn't mean disrespect or personal attack

Regardless, you did make some very good points from a different point of view, and I should have respected that. :drink:

I apologize for using both barrels on you. I should have known you didn't mean it the way I took it. In Lily Tomlin's words, "No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up," sort of describes one of my personal failings. :) Sorry.

Your post is a great help for Jeff I'm sure because it tells why keeping the land is important to you, your hopes and goals. I understand I cannot speak from that perspective because that is not my reality. I hope we both, and others who chimed in, did a good job of presenting food for thought.

And I hope your kids and or grandkids appreciate the opportunities you are preserving for them.

:drink:
 
   / Family Farm - A Question #43  
That (Torch Lake) area is pretty country, or at least that is way I remember it as a child. Michigan was always a nice place to go on a vacation. I can empathize with Jeff's memories.

Around the mid-1950's my family and another family would go tent camping at Houghton Lake and Higgins Lake. At Higgins it must have been what is now South Higgins Lake State Park because I remember walking the boat through the feeder stream between Higgins and Marl lakes.

Both Dads were crazy about fishing, WWII Vets and happy to be alive. They caught plenty of perch and walleye, and we five kids had a ball. Back then you could camp about 30' from the lake shore, just pulled the simple 16' steel boat up (with its 8 hp Martin outboard motor :laughing:) on the beach. Life was good, 'gooder' than we knew.

In the late 70's I took my wife for a ride up there to show her how neat it was. Well, it wasn't anything like the 1950's--it wasn't better either. :laughing:

There are those sayings about how a person can never go home again, or stand in the same stream. Time, places and people move on.
 
   / Family Farm - A Question
  • Thread Starter
#44  
Maybe a trip up north next time we visit dad would seal the deal, either for or against. Where I was raised is not at all like my memories. Might ought to cherish those and focus more on making new ones here. You all have a lot of good thoughts.
 
   / Family Farm - A Question #45  
My brother and his family moved about the country where their jobs took them - from Maine to CA to Fl to PA. They wanted their children to share their family roots in New England and so they bought a summer house to vacation to on the coast here in Maine. My brother is since gone, but that house still brings them back every summer, sometimes just a week, other times for the summer. My father did the same after he and my mother split. Whether from NM, CA, NY, he would rent- bringing his new family additions (- and wonderful they are!) -then finally buying a house here, closer to original family location and roots- every summer we would see him and my kids kept in touch with their grandfather and everyone else. He has passed as well, but that house remains and continues to bring family back.
I think the roots and place are important. Yes we can live anywhere, but sometimes some places just feel "more right" than other places.
Keep that farm in the family. It is part of who you are, your heritage. Pass it on down the line of new kids to come.
There are always ways, but once gone- they cannot be recaptured except through memories.
 
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   / Family Farm - A Question #46  
Long way away and that is a very hard to overcome, especially if you don't see yourself and family wanting to return to the area. I am blessed to have family land in Va. where we are only 3 hours away. We go very often. Have a camper there under an aluminum cover and we love it. Plan to retire there one day. My children enjoy it too. My reasons are based on the heart not so much the head!

If there is a slim chance you would want to go back I would try to hold onto it.
 
   / Family Farm - A Question #47  
I thought this over a while and came to the following conclusion...based on personal experience.

In my family there have been several properties long in the family. I have seen property passed on to several heirs which resulted in some of the heirs selling out and leaving the remaining heirs on the property with too little land to be profitable and/or a debt to the other heirs. The result has been an extreme financial hardship on the "owning" heirs. Thus, what started out to be a wonderful heritage turned into a terrible family trauma and hard feelings.

My net would be...if you can get the property free and clear, not have to purchase it/go into debt to get it or share it with anyone else, then I think it would be a good thing to keep. However, if you would be required to purchase it...even at a "good" price..which in any way would leave you with any struggle for funds, then I wouldn't do it. Remember that there can be inheritance fees/taxes and annual taxes even on a "free" piece of land.

One way to handle it is to put it into a generation skipping trust...see an estate planner...can defer some taxes if this is a consideration.
 
   / Family Farm - A Question #48  
texasjohn, I think that is the first time anybody has mentioned inheritance tax. I had thought about it, but do not know anything about it in the US so said nothing. In some countried that I do know about, a "gift" within several years of the death of the donor (giver) is liable to inheritance tax at the full market value of the gift. The donee (receiver of the gift) pays that tax, not the estate of the donor. Whatever is done about Trusts there are always ongoing fees (that get bigger every year) to pay the "advisers". When my mother died 3 years ago I was able to finalise a family Trust going back to 1967. Fortunately I was the sole Executor and Trustee and was working in legal circles at the time of its creation, so I have been able to administer it myself, but it took time and money (not a lot) for me to do so. I had to trace the offspring of somebody I had no knowledge about sine 1967. I am not fond of Trusts, too many unknown future variables - too many or lack of direct descendants, early deaths, fragmentation of the trust amongst distant relatives who neither know nor care about each other, etc.

I think all these extra ideas will only confuse the OP, and that is unfortunate, but they are problems he may have to face.
 
   / Family Farm - A Question #49  
OldMcDonald, you are correct regarding trusts...they can be complex and difficult to administer...or reasonably simple, depends on how they are set up AND their total value. I mentioned it because it is one way to defer tax on the property transfer. The question of tax deferral is important only when the value of the land is in a certain range and other factors...so depending on the value, it may or may not be a consideration. Currently there is a $5 million plus inflation adjustment amount maximum gift which can be excluded from income tax... summary here

Congress Passes Extended Estate and Gift Tax Relief for 2013 (With a Change in Rates): Frost Brown Todd Law Firm
In the USA, the tax is paid by the receiving party, however that might be accomplished. Sometimes, for large value property, the size of the tax alone causes the sale of some of the property to get the funds to meet the tax bill.

The OP asked for information and opinions... at least this thread gives food for thought... and details which should be understood and ironed out in advance where they apply.
 
   / Family Farm - A Question #50  
texasjohn, Thanks for that link. I have maintained an interest in taxation all these years - the single non-farming or "fun" thing that I have. Other folks do crosswords, sudoku etc. I read about tax. Your rules are fairly common where I have lived, but at a $5m kick in, are at a much higher starting point than anywhere else I know of. The UK is somewhere in the £300k plus region with similar spouse relief as the US.

As you say the info and opinions on the thread gives him food for thought and as you also post, he needs to understand and iron them out.
 

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