Fantasy.. the optimum transmission setup

[Bob_Trevithick]

I've been giving the HST versus Gear question a bit of thought lately. (Don't worry, this isn't going to be one of those "which is better" threads! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif)

My personal problem, and I emphasize that it's my problem, with HST, is that 45 years of driving has conditioned me to expect the brakes to be just where the HST "go" pedals are. Doesn't work for me.

OTOH, I love the benefits of HST, and I worry about my 4300 clutch, when I sometimes slip it a bit to ease up to something.

So, how would I design an "ideal" drivetrain and pedal setup?

What if.. we did something like this:

-Brake pedals on the right side, where, IMHO, they belong.

-A shuttle system arm, just like the SyncReverser one, which does the same exact thing.. simply changes direction from forward to reverse.

-A single HST pedal which acts more like a clutch. Imagine you push it all the way in to disengage the transmission just like you would with a normal gear machine. You select your forward or reverse, and your range, and then you let the HST pedal out just as you would a clutch to begin moving. In essence, you would adjust your speed by letting this pedal out as if you were constantly slipping your clutch.

No, bad idea.. if your foot slipped off the pedal, you'd take off at full speed. We don't want that! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Okay, let's do the same thing, but simply have the pedal act as a normal HST pedal.. push it further down to go faster. A single pedal, a reverser/shuttle lever on the steering column, and both brakes on the right.

Problems with this arrangement include that someone used to a clutch would tend to push the left pedal down when they want to stop.

Another option would be to make the HST go pedal an arm like the shuttle arm. But who wants to keep their hand on a lever the whole time they're driving?

Okay, I'm stumped as to any good way to arrange an HST for those people who, in an emergency situation, can't help but fall back on experience and brake with the pedals on the right side.

To me, this means, as much as I would love HST, it just won't work for me, no matter how it's set up.

I'm afraid my old-fashioned brain just can't adjust to new technology! /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif

 

[TerryinMD]

Bob,

I've driven a small Kubota Bxxxx HST and I have a JD4100 HST.

Essentially the braking is the same for both machines if my memory serves me right on the Kubota.

I prefer the JD setup with the two pedals. Yes, occasionally I slip up and hit the wrong pedal but as soon as you let up the tractor stops.

I had more trouble with the Kubota rocker pedal. Since you mash down a pedal on most vehicles and shift between pedal functionalities (brake, clutch, trottle), it seems more natural to me.

As far as the brake pedals, on the 4100, you have the main brake pedal on the same side as the HST motion pedals. The split brake pedals, differential lock, and 4wd selector on the left side. I haven't mastered the split braking pedals yet (hey doing two things at the same time is hard - three or four is too much on my addled brain. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif). The 4wd selector is probably the bigger pain. It just so happens to be just where you naturally rest your foot and sometimes is depressed by accident.

Typically, I make more mistakes with using the pedals when

1. I haven't been using the tractor a lot (now with the winter months)
2. I'm tired and not paying attention. (the more dangerous of course) /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

When my tractor was first delivered and the guy showed my what pedal did what, I naturally shook my head in that "Yep, got it - know what I'm doing now" attitude. As soon as the delivery truck drove away, I realized that I didn't have a clue and would have to spend time reading and re-reading the manual. The only cure is seat-time. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif And plenty of it. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Heck, if the manufacturers made it any more easier, driving a tractor wouldn't be any fun! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Terry

 

[Bob_Trevithick]

Hi Terry,

<font color=blue>...Heck, if the manufacturers made it any more easier, driving a tractor wouldn't be any fun! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif</font color=blue>

Well, I think it will always be fun.. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Just had an idea.. what if an HST were set up in such a way that it had a normal set of brakes on the right, a clutch on the left, and the gear shift lever was actually the HST control device? Add a shuttle lever on the steering column, and simply change the 4-speed lever to be an infinitely variable speed lever? Does this make sense?

Best of all worlds, perhaps? Just move it forward to increase the speed, back to slow her down, and do everything else normally.

I really resist the idea of overcoming the muscle training that's occured over a lifetime.. if you want safety you shouldn't switch controls around and expect people to adjust to them. Just my feeling, subject to rebuttal. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[TerryinMD]

Bob,

That has been done before.... if you look at some of the older L&G tractors, they used a lever to control the HST. I never had one, but I think that you would have to move the lever to slow down the ground speed. I like the pedal a lot better. Just like using a gas pedal on a car.

You do have a shift lever to control your range. I have high and low. You have high, medium, and low. Trade ya!! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Geezzzz... all the manufacturers have cadres of engineers working on this stuff and you want to steal some of their wind. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Terry

 

[Bob_Trevithick]

<font color=blue>You do have a shift lever to control your range. I have high and low. You have high, medium, and low. Trade ya!! </font color=blue>

Yeah, if only medium weren't so hard to get into. I need more seat time to get used to finding it. I usually end up in neutral. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

<font color=blue>Geezzzz... all the manufacturers have cadres of engineers working on this stuff and you want to steal some of their wind. </font color=blue>

The little hamster that runs in the cage in my head needs exercise! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[PaulT]

Brake pedals?!?! What are they??? With the Kubota HST, I just lift off the pedal and wham, I'm stopped. Ok - not when I'm moving down a moderately steep hill/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. But seriously, lifting off the HST pedal on anything even close to flat, (a few degrees up or down doesn't matter at all), it stops so fast that I could get whiplash. In fact, they tell you not to remove your foot from the pedal too quickly during break-in. Brakes - oh yeah, they are the parking brakes used to set when you don't want to roll and you are getting off/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Bob_Trevithick]

Hi Paul,

Yeah, that's the irony of it all.. I know the HST systems work just great. It isn't them that's at fault.. it's me. When I had my GT235, I would do dumb things all the time.. like back up slowly toward a trailer, then, when I was in the perfect spot, my brain would mis-fire and I'd remove my foot from the backup pedal and stomp on the forward pedal thinking it was the brake! Trying to hold myself in position. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif Of course I would rocket forward and have to start all over again. Thank God nobody ever got hurt during these shananigans. I just can't adjust to the pedal setup. This is nobody's fault but my own.. although I'd be surprised if others haven't done something similar. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

With the new 4300 SyncReverser, I never make mistakes.. because I'm programmed to know which pedals to push. If I could swap out my brain, I'd do it.. but I can't find a neurosurgeon willing to take on this job. So.. no HST for me. /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif