FARM PRO 2425 HELP!!!!!

Travis_R · Jun 11, 2004

Hey ya'll!

My name is Travis. I am 19 yrs. old and Love tractors. My friend has a Farm PRO 2425 tractor. I put 7 hrs. on it today with a 6ft. box blade. I need answers to the following questions ASAP before the tractor gets tore up because of lack of maintenance, adjustments, or non-awareness, etc..So, I will try to keep this brief.

1. If there is a load on the lift arms or not, hydraulic oil runs out of the hydraulic vent/check plug from behind the tractor seat. Oil gets ALL OVER the rear of the tractor. The lift is strong and picks up a 6ft. grader box with no problem. The tractor pulls it VERY well, also. I don't know what kind of oil is in the hydraulic system. The tractor has 65 hrs. on it. What is causing this and how much will it cost to fix it?
2. I am sure you know the tractor has power steering. It works well. Is it normal for the steering wheel to keep turning after the tires are turned all the way in either direction? If not normal, what is wrong and how much will it cost to fix it?
3. The P.T.O. lever moves to the 540rpm, Neutral, and 1000rpm positions, but the P.T.O. shaft doesn't spin. What is wrong and how much will it cost to fix it?

Thank you in advance.
Travis

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

bluechip · Jun 11, 2004

1. Oil coming out of the overflow. Is it foamy? The usual reason for the volume of oil to increase is air being introduced to the oil flow to the pump. Check all the fittings on the suction line (the metal line feeding into the side of the pump) and be sure they are tight. wipe the line clean and then look for oil seeping though anyplace that might indicate a hole in the line allowing air in. IF it has not been changed it is a chinese 30 wt oil. It would be best to put hydraulic oil in there for year round use, Universal tractor oil is good, especially in the south, 10W better in the colder climates.

2. Steering keeps turning. most likely cause is cylinder seal is bypassing internally.

3. PTO, Most likely cause is the short EN-DIE (engage disengage) lever by your left heal is not in the EN position. This is the main PTO shifter.

Is this tractor still in warranty? If so, the dealer can acquire a new steering cylinder, and if necessary address the overflow hydraulic problem.

If not you can dissasemble the cylinder and replace worn/damaged components or just buy a complete new one. We do have a new cylinder in stock here in central Arkansas.

Let me know if we can help.
sales@artrac.com

Soundguy · Jun 13, 2004

Another thought on the oil issue would be to check the hyd fluid level. I'v heard that it is no uncommon to blow a hyd pump shaft seal and pump hydro fluid into the crankcase.

If the hydro fluid is low.. good bet.

Soundguy

greg_g · Jun 13, 2004

( I'v heard that it is no uncommon to blow a hyd pump shaft seal and pump hydro fluid into the crankcase. If the hydro fluid is low.. good bet.)
You really need to add a Jinma to your collection Chris. Speculation only clouds the issues at hand. This particular tractor has an external gear driven pump and an independent hydraulic reservior; a closed loop system that includes steering control. No way I can think of for hydraulic fluid to get into the transmission.

That big box in the center is the reservior. It bolts to the top of - and forms a coverplate for - the differential housing. The operator seat then bolts to the hydraulic reservior.

//greg//

JohnS · Jun 14, 2004

Yep, I agree, it would be hard to get the hyd fluid into the transmission. I believe what he heard about, is when the hyd pump blows its O-ring (usually from dead heading), it pumps the hyd fluid into the engine. Once the o-ring goes the pump shaft seal can't hold the pressure back.

SPIKER · Jun 14, 2004

John has done a LOT of searching to find out why the HYD foam comes out of the vent line. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif (which is the vent behind the seat on top with the level gauge on it.)

likely culprits are leak in the STEEL feed line (under seat goes up to the pump on the right side of tractor. has 3 bolts in a tri-angle patern under seat) has a small leak in it, or a hole. next items is the intake filter is loose lets the foam get sucked back into the pump that is under the plate with 3 bolts under the seat. have to remove seat and then the plate with 3 bolts and the big steel line. remove and clean the filter with some fuel and reinstall tightly.

next items is that old china 30 weight oil is poor hyd fluid. repolace all that with NON-FOAMING generic hydraulic fluid. usually B303 spec will work too.

the steering wheel still moving when the wheels are on the stops is not a major issue. can be fixed but if the wheels stay at the locked spot whth out requireing more steering input to hold it there then it is not an issue if you have to keep turning to keep the wheels aginst the lock then the front cylinder can be re-placed or fixed with new seals. otherwise it maybe not worry about that just yet.

major things to watch, do not start tractor with the quick disconncts removed or disconnected where they leave the pump and go to the FEL.

then next item is to go to JOHNS site /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and read all the info there carefully... lots of good advice and info for novice china tractor owners...

Mark M

Soundguy · Jun 14, 2004

( Speculation only clouds the issues at )

First.. no need to be rude here... I would imagine that user's with abrasive attitudes are one of the things impeding many from getting a 'U-wrench-it' tractor.. knowing that they will have to get tech support infor from other users.

( No way I can think of for hydraulic fluid to get into the transmission )

2nd.. I read his message too fast and missed where he was getting too much oil. That was my mistake.. however you missed what I said.. which was what John mentioned... hydraulic oil into the crankcase.. and I did specify crankcase.. not tranny.

Soundguy

greg_g · Jun 15, 2004

( you missed what I said.. )
I too, read too fast. My eyes say crankcase, but my brain registered transmission. For that I apologize.

But I take exception to rude and abrasive Chris. I've owned a Yanmar and two JDs, so you've likely seen me post occasionally in associated forums. I do not own a New Holland/Ford/International, so do not presume to give NH/Ford/IH owners advice about a machine that I've never even sat on. But my hands-on experience HAS been extended to Jinma and KAMA for the last few years, and it helps that I have the manuals. So I feel minorly qualified to assist other owners with SOME Chinese tractor problems. But you won't find me hovering about in any other tractor forums.

Travis - please excuse the off topic bantering. The important thing is whether or not you feel you've received the information you were seeking. BlueChip and Spiker did a great job of addressing your main questions. BlueChip has a dealer history with FarmPro, so he speaks with authority. And Spiker has a Jinma not much different than the one about which you're asking. JohnS hosts a Jinma-related website. So you're in good company.

//greg//

Soundguy · Jun 15, 2004

( you missed what I said.. )
I too, read too fast. My eyes say crankcase, but my brain registered transmission. For that I apologize.

But I take exception to rude and abrasive Chris)

No problem. It was just the 'tone' that grabed me wrong. But I do understand that it is easy to get the wrong impression from typewritten communication.. with or without emoticons.

You are correct in that I have very little practical experience with the jinma... I've driven a few and know a few people who have them, and one that sells them. A friend of my wife ( couple ) bought one when they got a small hobby farm, and they have been leaning on me for generic tractor advice,.. not specifically Jinma stuff.. though he has had a few small problems I had to go scratch my head over. He's not the internet type.. so now I'm trolling over here to try to build up my knowledgebase.

While I am still a proponet of these tractors.. The more I see.. the more I also see defects in materials and workmanship that I simply do not see in domestic brands.. even antiques.

For example. There were many tapped holes in castings that were simple drilled off center.. and then retapped out for the bolt to fit.. albiet cockeyed...right up on the center/top of the tractor.. one was for a j-shaped breather tube? That simple does not cut the mustard as far as manufacturing process goes. I think these tractors are neat.. but the chineese weally need to work on a few things.. and one of them seems to be compatibility issues on the machine. For instance.. I see many references in theis forum of the hydro fluid being too thick for the screens... yet that is what they are OEM'ed with... that looks like a product development issue...

Anyway.. not knocking them.. just think /wish the manufacturer would hurry up and 'mature' a bit... If they did I'm sure their market share would refleft the commitmant to a better product, thru increased sales.

Soundguy

greg_g · Jun 15, 2004

( I see many references in theis forum of the hydro fluid being too thick for the screens... yet that is what they are OEM'ed with... that looks like a product development issue...)
My take on that is that 30W oil is the cheapest thing the manufacturers can pour in, for the purpose of preservation during shipment. Sorta like cosmoline on new guns. Reputable gun dealers remove the gunk, then sell cleaned and lubricated firearms. Reputable Chinese tractor dealers replace the Asian stuff with the appropriate fluids before sale. So I believe what you've heard comes from self-importers who don't know any better and from customers of dealers that didn't either.

I see the standing of Chinese products in America about the same as was the Japanese back in the 60s. Remember when you used to turn something upside down to make sure it didn't say "Made in Japan"? The Chinese implement manufacturing process simply employs what's available there at the lowest cost; iron and labor. The defects you see may very well be as a result of the cottage industry approach; many jobbers providing a common part or casting, no two of which are ever exactly the same. And it's much apparently simpler for them to cast iron and steel than it is to stamp steel and/or use alloys. The result is a rough heavy product. Believe it or not, the valve cover on my 2004 KAMA is cast iron. I've never had cause to remove it, but it looks to be a good 60 pounds. This is just a small example of why I recommend potential owners buy more (Chinese) horsepower than they think they'll ever need

But also consider that fit and finish are reflected in the price. I tell these same potential buyers that they're buying 40-50 year old technology. Except for real-time parts availability, it's the old "fix it in the field" technology. In the end, ya gets what ya pays for.

//greg//

Soundguy · Jun 15, 2004

( My take on that is that 30W oil is the cheapest thing the manufacturers can pour in, for the purpose of preservation during shipment. Sorta like cosmoline on new guns )

I agree completely.. except.. that their factory should produce a finished product. There is no reason why they should go to the expense to produce a tractor.. then pour the absolute cheapes fluid in it they can. This same discussion went on in the yanmar sub a while back. Someone asked about tranny oil, and a dealer mentioned that the factory ( exporter? ) said ATF was fine.. I pointed out that the tranny and rear end are a common sump.. and I questioned whethere tranny fluid would be a good rear final drive lube.. since virtually NO other equipment manufacturer uses it that way...And that is what it boiled down to.. cheapest fluid they could ship it with.. I signed off that thread with a warning to check their imports in case baby oil or cooking oil ever went on sale.. as that is probably what would get shipped out.. using that 'pass the buck' logic.

One point though.. cosmo on guns is for storage.. not lubrication... If someone shipped a gun in vasolene to save a buck.. that would be a closer analogy. I expect that tractor to roll of fthe line and be work ready.. all fluids inclusive.

I see domestic tractors arive at 'big-3' dealers and they drive them of fthe truck.. so they aren't shipped dry. I'm guessing that's the same oil the purchaser gets when he buys the tractor...

( So I believe what you've heard comes from self-importers )

What I've heard comes from right here.. this very sub.. search the archives.. many specific threads about the oils being too thick for the screen.. plus many other cheap out the door shortcuts.. questionable radiator fluid, and or batteries.

( The defects you see may very well be as a result of the cottage industry approach; many jobbers providing a common part or casting, no two of which are ever exactly the same )

I also believe that to be true. Lots of hand fitting.. and many parts sources assembled and sold as spec'd. I guess if you have lotsa rice, labor and not much else.. that's what you get... lots of otherwise unskilled labor making parts that come off production equipment that isn't altogether exact... thus providing parts that are almost unique.. etc.
( not kicking them for this... just agreeing verbosely.. ya work with what ya got...)

( And it's much apparently simpler for them to cast iron and steel than it is to stamp steel )

Again.. I agree. I've even bought asian produced aftermarket parts for my older domestic tractors.. in many cases the part being replaced will have been oem stamped steel or machined billet.. etc.. and will come in as some sort of cast metal.. etc.

( This is just a small example of why I recommend potential owners buy more (Chinese) horsepower than they think they'll ever need
)

Agree.. again.. and here's another reason to get more chineese hp.. think of it like this. Compair a higher quality brand 'x' tractor and a chineese tractor of same stats.. work both at max usage.. or even overtax them. My bet is that the one built to higher tolerance standards.. and using superior materials will live longer. Take that same tractor and instead compair it to a chineese one 1.5 times as big, and theat cureve may well level out... while the smaller unit is stillat max usage.. the chineese one may be bumped back down into regular use.. in which case.. should last longer..

Like you said.. its all relative.. everyones really buying the same amount of tractor per dollar.. the chineese ones are just less expen$ive per unit...
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Soundguy

Travis_R · Jun 15, 2004

Fellers, I am sorry that I haven't been on my computer. It was out of commission for a few days.

All of you have been very helpful, but I still don't really understand a couple of problems/Questions. I guess I didn't make it clear enough for you. I should have added more details. My fault. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

1. STEERING PROBLEM:
Picture this. The tractor is sitting still. The tires are turned all the way, for example, to the right (this goes for the left too. Just using the right for example).They can not turn anymore. The Steering Wheel DOES keep turning to the right. The steering wheel doesn't have any "pressure" on it at all. In other words, when I let go of the steering wheel, it doesn't kick back to the left. BUT, the tires still stay turned, "locked", to the right until I turn the steering wheel back to the left. The wheels stay in position whenever I let go of the wheel. They don't move unless I make them.
What is wrong, how do I fix it, and how much will it cost to fix it. PLEASE BREAK IT DOWN step by step. I am a slow learner and a slow typist and don't know much about computers.

2. P.T.O. PROBLEM:
I haven't tried it yet about the ENGAGE/DISENGAGE LEVER by my left heel. I never even noticed there was a lever there. I guess I over looked it. I just thought that when you press in the clutch all the way, you could move the 540/N/1000rpm lever in 540/1000 position, let out on the clutch, and the p.t.o. shaft would start spinning. Guess I was wrong. Maybe there isn't a P.T.O. problem?

3. HYDRAULIC PROBLEM:
The oil coming out of the check/vent/fill hole IS FOAMY. It starts SPEWING out of the little vent tube like it is pressurized or something. I took the whole plug out (square headed plug) and watched the oil inside. It just started to rise until it came out of the hole and spilled all over the back of the tractor. There was no implement attached either. The hydraulics are still very strong, even though it is losing oil. I have noticed something though that I don't know if it is right, and it probably isn't. The lift won't hardly lift up unless you accellerate the fuel. When you "give it the gas" the lift comes up fast. If it is just idleing, the lift won't come up. You can hear the pump making noise like it is in "stress" until I let go of the UP/DOWN lever. What is wrong, how can it be fixed, and how much will it cost?

I thought ya'll needed to know that I am not going to be the one fixing this tractor. I am just relaying these messages and taking notes. My dam piece of junk printer is broke, so I can't print.
Also, my friend really don't care about his tractor because he don't do any maintenance or look for potential problems on it. Not long after he got it, he was bush hogging a clear-cut and ran over a pine stump. He bent the front driveshaft. He cut it and rewelded it back up. It works well now, but how long will it stay "fixed?" He just uses it when he wants and parks it till' next time. That REALLY makes me mad because someone like me who loves, lives, and breathes tractors doesn't have one. He, I don't believe,don't deserve to have one. He don't have any use for a tractor but he just uses it to mainly play and "fiddle around". But, it is his money. BUT NOT ANY MONEY AT ALL IN THE TRACTOR. He took a chance on a $20.00 raffle ticket on a used Harley Davidson motorcycle. He won it. He traded the cycle for the 1 hour old tractor. The tractor has 67 hours on it now and has been PUT THROUGH HELL. NO, IT IS NOT UNDER WARRANTY. It definitely defines the meaning "RODE HARD AND PUT UP WET". The tractor sits more than it is used. But when used, it is abused. This tractor may never get fixed. I don't know. But if he ever decides to fix it, I'll have some dam good information for him. I wish he woul come off of it before it gets worse. I don't think he will, though.
You folks are very smart and friendly. I appreciate that very much. There are more questions I want to ask and learn about. But, I have to quit typing now and go on and post this long message because I am hot in the head. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

bluechip · Jun 16, 2004

Tavis,
The steering issue is not uncommon, the seals in the steering cylinder are allowing fluid to leak past, there is sufficient pressure to turn the wheels, but as you hit the stop, and keep turning, more oil is pumped into the cylinder to replace the oil that is leaking out into the other half of the cylinder and back into the sump. You could dissassemble the front cylinder and replace the seals, probably about $ 30-40 in parts, 1.5 hours labor including removal and refitting.

2. check that PTO engage-disengage lever, bet that does it,

3. foamy oil, we have covered that here, based on the bent drive shaft inork, i'd say there is a leak on the suction line running from under the seat to the pump on the side of hte engine. Sounds like it is pretty severe so you should be able to see oil leaking out when the tractor is off. just wipe the line clean and then go over it with a paper town and seeif it gets oily.

That should take care of it.
Chip

Harrygoodwrench · Jun 16, 2004

Do as Chip says and if you can't find any obvious leaks, pull the filter. The filter is mounted on a tube that screws into the upper part of the housing and has an "O" ring. If that tube were loose it would pull air from inside the hydraulic fluid resovior as the upper part of the tube is above the fluid line. Alas to check this you must pull the filetr housing but only takes 10 minutes and while at it clean filter. Regards, Harry G

bluechip · Jun 16, 2004

Good point Harry! I missed that part. I figured when he bent the drive shaft, he could have easily banged up the suction line, got to be a pretty good air leak to raise the level so quickly, but should be a fairly easy and inexpensive fix.

SPIKER · Jun 16, 2004

TRAVIS:

the steering is doing prety much what is is susposed to do!. When you let go of the wheel if you are not moving it will not move the tires at all. if you are moving they will slowly come back twards straight but not very fast. it is not a car and does not have passive steering. it has active steering as in you have to activly steer it! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif turn right it will move the tires to turn right untill it hits the stops then pressure builds and the relife lets it bypass and or the steering cylinder leaks a bit for bypass. this is common but probably not anything to worry about unless it is leaking out the rod end.

as for the front drive shaft getting broke it is tucked up high not sure how he broke it unless he got too much traction when stuck aginst the stump and the torque twisted the drive shaft off... otherwise it would have hit the front axle and steering cylinder. (maybe it pushed the stump over and then the root ball hit drive shaft?) anyhow the only REAL problem is the foam ing hydraulics as I can see.

do as suggested above and post back if it is still doing it. the grinding nnsqueeling noises is typical of a pump which is getting AIR in the hydraulics and is not good for the pump. again get to the bottom of the foam first. empty out the 30 weight oil that is probably still in there and add B303 or Hydraulic fluid. others use ATF fluid works well too. Hydraulic fluid is lighter than the heavy 30 weight for flowing ability and longevity. also make sure what ever you get is antifoaming.

One thing also is that the HYDRAULICS will foam and suck the already foamy fluid into the pump causing it to foam more so it is self exobating meaning more foam it has worse it gets worse it gets more foam it makes as the foam bubbles get smaller and smaller they take up more and more room. which means the fluid dumps out letting more air into the tank so it sucks more air which in a very short time there is little more than shaving cream in there and very little oil... it can help to get the foam out to drain out the resiviour and start over plain and simple. while drained pull the seat and the hyd intake suction line and filter clean it out and make sure there is a o-ring on there when re-installed. let the tractor set for a few days so the foam in the system will settle out to one bigger air bubble, start it up let it run at idle, run the controls slowly up/down and full stroke them a few times and shut down and let it set a few more days. this way the air gets out before it becomes FOAM...
Otherwise you will be starting over again...

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Mark M

Travis_R · Jun 17, 2004

To All:

Every one of you know what you are talking about. I will not be the one working on the Farm Pro 2425. I don't even think that my friend even knows there are problems with his tractor. He don't take the time to look /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Like I said, he just uses it and puts it up till next time. He is not a dumb person, he just don't care. He might not fix it until something major happens. Then, it is still liable to sit up for a period of time because he really don't have no use for it and only paid $20.00 for it (in his eyes). Don't get me wrong, he is a great person and will help you any way he can. I just don't like some of his ways. ESPECIALLY when it comes to his tractor. When I am on a tractor, the seat is the top of the world. I just wanted information on what was wrong with his and how it could be fixed so I could relay the message and my notes in case he ever decided to do something with it. I would LOVE to get involved with this tractor but I just can't go to his house and start taking the thing apart when it isn't mine. That pees me off because I can't stand to see ANY tractor go to waste. If he ever decides to fix it though, I will have a lot of EXCELLENT information because of CARING people like ya'll.

I don't want to get off the Farm Pro 2425 subject and start talking about him. That is not what this post is about. I just wanted to let ya'll know that when you tell me how to fix the problems, I cant. I just want the information. The Know-How. Ya'll are doing a great job of sharing it with me too.

So, keep coming with the info, and as long as I am able to type and write and this computer stays running, I'll keep replying and taking notes. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Oh! I almost forgot. This is for Mr. Mark M. I wasn't there when it happened, but he didn't break the front driveshaft into on the stump. It just bent it real bad, so I was told. They cut and re-welded it somehow. It is holding up good as of right now. I used 4WD just about the whole 6 or 7 hours I was on the tractor the other day and it worked fine. I think I was the first person who ever put a grader box on the thing, also.

I noticed that I couldn't get it to go in 4WD unless the tractor was rolling just a little, or if I let out on the clutch a little while moving the 2WD/4WD lever. Is this normal? I heard it was, but ain't sure. It went back in 2WD fine with no movement of the tractor. Also, I don't think that the Rear Positive Traction is working properly. The lever goes into the "engaged" position with a slight grinding and feels like it is correct. But, only one wheel wants to spin, unless I apply the individual brakes to lock the other wheel, depending on which wheel is spinning, like I had to do to my old 1949 Ford 8N.

Thank all of you for understanding,
Travis R.

I have been to John S's site. WONDERFUL place to visit about Chinese tractors. I can't view all of the pages cause this junk computer won't let me. Good work Mr. John, keep it up.

P.S. I just got the opportunity to bush-hog today and maybe tomorrow /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif on a Kubota L4310 4x4 w/FEL and a brand new BUSH HOG brand SQUEALER SQ720 cutter (6ft.). I have never had the opportunity to cut with a FARM PRO, but I LIKE the FARM PRO 2425 TRACTOR, BETTER than the KUBOTA L4310, even though I love all tractors. I will post another discussion about this topic. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

greg_g · Jun 17, 2004

( he didn't break the front driveshaft into on the stump. It just bent it real bad )
Probably just dented the driveshaft housing. Tricky part of that little job is getting all the ball bearings back in at re-assembly time

( I let out on the clutch a little while moving the 2WD/4WD lever. Is this normal?)
yup. And it might also be aggravated by the fact the driveshaft was reinstalled)

( Also, I don't think that the Rear Positive Traction is working properly.)
It's called a Locking Differential Travis, more often just stated as "diff lock". What you describe is normal, considering that it's not designed to STAY locked. You engage the lever and HOLD it only for as long as you need the extra traction of the 2nd tire. When it's no longer needed, let go of the lever and it will disengage itself. Using it full time will cause transmission damage.

And as a matter of form, we don't usually promote one nationality of tractor over another in this particular forum. Too many non-productive arguments have a tendency to drag on to no real end. This one is more appropriate for simple "care and feeding of Chinese tractors" type topics. But there is a forum on this website that may be more suitable; try Owning/Operating or Buying/Pricing

//greg//

Travis_R · Jun 17, 2004

Mr. Greg,

I agree with you about the Farm Pro and Kubota issue. I went ahead and deleted the post. I wasn't trying to get someone to buy one tractor over the other. I was just saying which one I liked better. Especially with my budget! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

SPIKER · Jun 17, 2004

Travis: that grinding you are hearing when you try and use the engauge lever is more than likely the PTO engauge and disengauge lever you are trying to move!!! DON"T DO THAT unless the clutch is IN!!! the small lever all way on the floor is the PTO lever. there is a LONG lever that comes up from the base twards the seat, this is the DIF LOCK lever. push slightly while letting the clutch OUT and move while HOLDING the lever in, it will not GO INTO ENGAUGE untill the locking dogs align! don't FORCE it you will only bend or break something. same for disengauging it. as stated above by soundguy I think the lever will pop out of LOCK on it's own when the two wheels are moving together and 0 diferencial torque is applied. DON"T EVER LOCK the dif and drive on HARD SURFACE you will bend the lock dogs and bind them together permatly... same for 4 wheel drive NEVER on HARD DRY DIRT and TURN HARD in 4 wheel drive it can twist the front drive shaft off as the front and rear ends try and turn at different rates. remember DIF LOCK LEVER is at hand height on the right side of the seat ahead of the 540/1000 pto secondary speed selector lever.

Ok next question~? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif