farming and taxes... questions.

   / farming and taxes... questions. #11  
Hakim used the 2 or 5 rule as an example, and Cowboydoc referred to "substantial", and both are correct. I'm not an accountant, but I have been running my own small businesses for years, and have never turned a profit for tax purposes.

There are two ways to meet to rule regarding a hobby business, One, as Hakim says, is to meet the 2 of 5 rule (I have also seen more frequent references to a 3 of 5 rule, which I believe is more accurate). The other is to be able to show a substantial effort to make a profit. If it is clear that your intent is to make a profit, the IRS will not penalize you for being a lousy businessman.

The key, as Cowboydoc says, is the word "substantial". I've seen definitions in the IRS rulings which indicate that if you put in a substantial amount of investment, put in a substantial amount of time, and behave in all ways as if you intend to make a profit, you're good to go. As Cowboydoc says, the investment must be relative to the profit you intend to make. It would be difficult to write off a 150 horsepower tractor and a semi truck for 10 acres and 40 goats, but a compact tractor and a Ford Ranger are reasonable and relative.

The substantial amount of time is probably in the neighborhood of 30 hours per week or more. And the intent can be shown with a business bank account, a separate business phone line, brochures and other advertising, participation in shows, etc.

Bottom line, if you're putting in a few hours a week doing something you might do whether you made a profit or not, you'll be limited to writing off expenses against income. But, if you are making a sincere and substantial (relative to the business circumstances) effort to turn a profit, you can take off all expenses and declare a loss every year.

In my case, we owned a commercial property of appropriate size for the business, I put in a minimum of 70 hours per week, I had three other employees, I bought tools and maintained at least $50K in inventory, I advertised and ran a web site, and there was absolutely no doubt that I was substantially involved in trying to make a profit. I had plenty of customers and a fairly substantial gross income (over $300K per year). At the same time, there are so many opportunities to take legitimate write offs and expenses that it was easy to show a small loss at the end of the year, and take the Schedule K loss against my wife's income. In fact, I never took all the deductions allowed to me, just to be on the safe side and to provide a cushion against any honest mistakes I might have made. When you are audited, the IRS has an obligation to give you credit for things you missed, as well as try to milk you dry.

I had an IRS-registered CPA prepare the taxes for several years, but then took over on my own with Turbo Tax once it became apparent that I was meeting all the tests, taking only legitimate deductions and not raising any flags with the IRS. I was never audited.

I'm sure there are special rules for farm income, but if anything, they will be more lenient because the USG tends to support farmers.

Here's a link to an article about hobby businesses: hobby business tax rules
 
   / farming and taxes... questions. #12  
Given the small operation, showing any kind of significant loss on your return would be difficult to justify. However, some heavy expenses are expected in early years, if you can show where it leads. You could conceivably take depreciation on the business portion of the tractor, within the above constraints. Section 179 is probably out, as you have to have at least 50% business use and is limited to business income (but salary is considered business income!).

I caution against equating a cheap tax software package to a competent tax preparer, however. Its a nice tool if you have some idea what the result should be, but can really make a mess otherwise.

Turbo tax is a $29 package. The one I use is more than $10,000 per year, and its not worth a darn either if you have no tax knowledge.

The tax law unique to farming is pretty simple, so any good preparer should not have any trouble with your return, with the proper reading material.

Good luck.
 
   / farming and taxes... questions. #13  
Good post OkeeDon. I guess the points I would make is that its hard under the current rules to show a tax loss without losing the cash money. If this happens on a regular basis, then maybe the business should be shut down. If the taxpayer elects to continue losing money, then maybe there are some personal expenses buried in there. No problem until you get examined.

Farms are more scrutinized by the IRS because its easy to characterize personal expenses of land owners as farm expenses. This is why they attempt to apply the hobby loss limits.
 

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