Favorite handgun caliber?
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Dargo,
I like my .45 too and though it seems overrated in knockdown, we need to remember that the slower bullet has more time to expand. This provides more energy inside the average target(human or animal). With the higher powered rounds, I have found, my 454 for example passes through a deer too quickly to expand. The two deer I shot last year had relatively small exit holes(about the same as entrance). They were lighter bullets, this year I stepped up to the Hornady round you mentioned, I'm waiting to see how they compare /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. In all fairness to the round I used last year, neither deer was more than 15yds away. So, I could have killed them with a baseball I guess...... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I like my .45 too and though it seems overrated in knockdown, we need to remember that the slower bullet has more time to expand. This provides more energy inside the average target(human or animal). With the higher powered rounds, I have found, my 454 for example passes through a deer too quickly to expand. The two deer I shot last year had relatively small exit holes(about the same as entrance). They were lighter bullets, this year I stepped up to the Hornady round you mentioned, I'm waiting to see how they compare /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. In all fairness to the round I used last year, neither deer was more than 15yds away. So, I could have killed them with a baseball I guess...... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Dargo
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...we need to remember that the slower bullet has more time to expand. This provides more energy inside the average target(human or animal). )</font>
Actually, it is quite the opposite. A bullet must be travelling at over 1200 fps for reliable expansion. I'm not aware of any .45 ACP cartridge that does that. Also, the faster the bullet, the more "hydroshock" occurs. Here is a nice site that explains more than most people would like to know, including the fact that it only takes an average of 163 fps to break the skin and 213 fps to break bone: http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNBLST.html
The "tutorial" is interesting and based on noted medical investigations and ballistic tests. It is a good site for reference.
Actually, it is quite the opposite. A bullet must be travelling at over 1200 fps for reliable expansion. I'm not aware of any .45 ACP cartridge that does that. Also, the faster the bullet, the more "hydroshock" occurs. Here is a nice site that explains more than most people would like to know, including the fact that it only takes an average of 163 fps to break the skin and 213 fps to break bone: http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNBLST.html
The "tutorial" is interesting and based on noted medical investigations and ballistic tests. It is a good site for reference.
OP
Sigarms
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Curious, other than a .454 or .500 which might be hard to "conceal", what would you reccomend as a "man stopper" in a CCW handgun cartridge?
Sort of like reading Boddington (sp?) on the effects of a .45-70 on "real life" compared to ballistic tables.
Anyway you cut, wouldn't want to be hit by ANTHING, including a .22
Sort of like reading Boddington (sp?) on the effects of a .45-70 on "real life" compared to ballistic tables.
Anyway you cut, wouldn't want to be hit by ANTHING, including a .22
<font color="blue"> However, police departments, hunters, and assorted "bad guys" did not sign the treaty and may use low velocity handgun cartridges with bullets having a soft lead point or a "hollowpoint" designed specifically to deform on impact. Such deformation imparts all the KE of the bullet to the tissues in a short distance.
</font>
This quote from the site you posted explains just what I was saying. I wasnt refering to reliable or consistent expansion, just the fact that it expands before passing through(or maybe remaining in) the target. This way the full force is excerted on the target. Like getting hit with a brick vs an ice pick.
I dont discount your point about hydroshock or reliable expansion, its just a bit of a different point. BTW, cool info you posted.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="blue"> </font>
</font>
This quote from the site you posted explains just what I was saying. I wasnt refering to reliable or consistent expansion, just the fact that it expands before passing through(or maybe remaining in) the target. This way the full force is excerted on the target. Like getting hit with a brick vs an ice pick.
I dont discount your point about hydroshock or reliable expansion, its just a bit of a different point. BTW, cool info you posted.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="blue"> </font>
Dargo
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> However, police departments, hunters, and assorted "bad guys" did not sign the treaty and may use low velocity handgun cartridges with bullets having a soft lead point or a "hollowpoint" designed specifically to deform on impact. Such deformation imparts all the KE of the bullet to the tissues in a short distance.
</font>
This quote from the site you posted explains just what I was saying. I wasnt refering to reliable or consistent expansion, just the fact that it expands before passing through(or maybe remaining in) the target. This way the full force is excerted on the target. Like getting hit with a brick vs an ice pick.
I dont discount your point about hydroshock or reliable expansion, its just a bit of a different point. BTW, cool info you posted.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="blue"> </font> )</font>
Sure, but we are only talking about 400 ft. lbs. or so of energy to be deposited. The real life, actual police and medical reports, statistics show that 400 ft. lbs will not drop someone in over 95% of the cases. That will only do so with a direct head shot or to the spinal column. (dang, I sound awfully morbid...sorry. As an insomniac, I've spent way too many nights being fascinated with this weird stuff. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) That is why I was talking about reliable expansion in a bullet that will actually drop someone. Oh yeah, no offense taken at all. Hopefully you didn't take offense. I enjoy this stuff. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
If you can get 80 to 90% energy deposit with something packing over 1000 ft. lbs., you have a much greater chance of stopping your target. The reason I am so concerned about that is due to the widely accepted fact that only about 11% of the shots fired by any non-military or non-law enforcement person hit their target. So, with a statistical 11% chance of hitting my target, I want it to count.
Oh yeah, for my personal "packing" piece, I seem to prefer my Glock 29 with hydroshock shells. I cheat too; I use a lasermax integrated laser site. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
</font>
This quote from the site you posted explains just what I was saying. I wasnt refering to reliable or consistent expansion, just the fact that it expands before passing through(or maybe remaining in) the target. This way the full force is excerted on the target. Like getting hit with a brick vs an ice pick.
I dont discount your point about hydroshock or reliable expansion, its just a bit of a different point. BTW, cool info you posted.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="blue"> </font> )</font>
Sure, but we are only talking about 400 ft. lbs. or so of energy to be deposited. The real life, actual police and medical reports, statistics show that 400 ft. lbs will not drop someone in over 95% of the cases. That will only do so with a direct head shot or to the spinal column. (dang, I sound awfully morbid...sorry. As an insomniac, I've spent way too many nights being fascinated with this weird stuff. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) That is why I was talking about reliable expansion in a bullet that will actually drop someone. Oh yeah, no offense taken at all. Hopefully you didn't take offense. I enjoy this stuff. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
If you can get 80 to 90% energy deposit with something packing over 1000 ft. lbs., you have a much greater chance of stopping your target. The reason I am so concerned about that is due to the widely accepted fact that only about 11% of the shots fired by any non-military or non-law enforcement person hit their target. So, with a statistical 11% chance of hitting my target, I want it to count.
Oh yeah, for my personal "packing" piece, I seem to prefer my Glock 29 with hydroshock shells. I cheat too; I use a lasermax integrated laser site. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I too like the Hydroshock rounds in my .45 and .357....
Did you see the Mythbusters show about the movie type energy deposited by a bullet? That was humerous.. The one that did surprise me though was the BMG... They added a 1/4" steel plate to busters chest and shot him. He just fell down, no backward motion to speak of... I like the big rounds myself, always have..
For protection though, I dont want high velocity as it will penetrate too far, possibly into the neighboring rooms /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif. I want every bit of that bullet to remain in the target if possible, this is why I like my slooooowwww .45 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. This way he can enjoy the same recoil I do, just in a negative way. One shot one kill, hopefully..... I do own one 9mm if I get trigger happy though. It is a TEC-9 w/32rd clip. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.. Funny thing is its never been fired. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Just couldnt resist, got a good deal on it.
Definitly no offence here, I enjoy it too.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif You have to have feelings to get them hurt... Thats what my wife tells me all the time..
Did you see the Mythbusters show about the movie type energy deposited by a bullet? That was humerous.. The one that did surprise me though was the BMG... They added a 1/4" steel plate to busters chest and shot him. He just fell down, no backward motion to speak of... I like the big rounds myself, always have..
For protection though, I dont want high velocity as it will penetrate too far, possibly into the neighboring rooms /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif. I want every bit of that bullet to remain in the target if possible, this is why I like my slooooowwww .45 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. This way he can enjoy the same recoil I do, just in a negative way. One shot one kill, hopefully..... I do own one 9mm if I get trigger happy though. It is a TEC-9 w/32rd clip. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.. Funny thing is its never been fired. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Just couldnt resist, got a good deal on it.
Definitly no offence here, I enjoy it too.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif You have to have feelings to get them hurt... Thats what my wife tells me all the time..
wushaw
Elite Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="red"> </font> Sure, but we are only talking about 400 ft. lbs. or so of energy to be deposited. The real life, actual police and medical reports, statistics show that 400 ft. lbs will not drop someone in over 95% of the cases. That will only do so with a direct head shot or to the spinal column. (dang, I sound awfully morbid...sorry. As an insomniac, I've spent way too many nights being fascinated with this weird stuff. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) That is why I was talking about reliable expansion in a bullet that will actually drop someone. )</font>
Actually Dargo it takes a whole lot less with head and spinal shots, my bow has about 64lbs of KE and I have had a deer and a pig drop in their tracks with this kind of hit.
I have know idea what the lowest would actually be.
This is a great thread.
Actually Dargo it takes a whole lot less with head and spinal shots, my bow has about 64lbs of KE and I have had a deer and a pig drop in their tracks with this kind of hit.
I have know idea what the lowest would actually be.
This is a great thread.
Dargo
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I was talking about fps (feet per second), not ft. lbs., on breaking skin and breaking bone. I don't have any data on what amount of energy it would take. I would think that would be greatly dependent upon the shape of the projectile, and definitely placement. I'm sure your bow will sling an arrow much faster than 64 fps. My info is taken from a medical based statistical average. I am not nearly smart enough to have known that on my own. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Dargo
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( For protection though, I dont want high velocity as it will penetrate too far, possibly into the neighboring rooms /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.)</font>
For home protection I am not complicated; a 6 shot 12 gauge Marine Magnum pistol grip with light field load. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
For home protection I am not complicated; a 6 shot 12 gauge Marine Magnum pistol grip with light field load. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
