OP
Sigarms
Super Member
My .22-250 is a Savage with the Acu-trigger (sp?). Best gun for money out there!
Favorite handgun caliber?
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OP
Sigarms
Super Member
Funny you should say that. The scope did cost more than the rifle! (on the Savage)
anthonyk
Gold Member
Big and slow.
Definitely a .45.
In fact the second rule of handgunning, in my humble opinion as a retired peace officer, and s.w.a.t team member here in Texas, is that if it don't start with a "4" then stay away from it.
The first rule of handgunning is, of course, have a gun.
You know with all the discourse about knockdown ability etc, people often overlook a couple of important facts.
First, shot placement is FAR more important than caliber.
Secondly: In order for potential energy (muzzle velocity, bullet speed, bullet weight, etc.) to be translated to kinetic energy (the ability to immobilize or incapacitate, knockdown, or stop, the bullet must STAY in the target. That's why I've always preferred big bore, slow moving bullets. A bullet like a high speed 9mm often loses effectiveness by taking most of it's energy with it after it exits the target, thus also potentially endangering an innocent person.
Big and slow, that's the way to do it.
Anthony
Definitely a .45.
In fact the second rule of handgunning, in my humble opinion as a retired peace officer, and s.w.a.t team member here in Texas, is that if it don't start with a "4" then stay away from it.
The first rule of handgunning is, of course, have a gun.
You know with all the discourse about knockdown ability etc, people often overlook a couple of important facts.
First, shot placement is FAR more important than caliber.
Secondly: In order for potential energy (muzzle velocity, bullet speed, bullet weight, etc.) to be translated to kinetic energy (the ability to immobilize or incapacitate, knockdown, or stop, the bullet must STAY in the target. That's why I've always preferred big bore, slow moving bullets. A bullet like a high speed 9mm often loses effectiveness by taking most of it's energy with it after it exits the target, thus also potentially endangering an innocent person.
Big and slow, that's the way to do it.
Anthony
Well, I've got .22, .380. .38 Super, .38 Spl .45ACP and .45 LC. If I could have only one, it'd be the .45LC. With handloads, it can be a very versatile caliber. The only problem is that my Ruger Blackhawk is not the most concealable weapon.
XL
XL
I guess everybody's experiences are a little different...my experience is that big, slow bullets penetrate more, not less than high-speed lightweight ones.
One example (of a few I've seen) is the penetration observed on a big German Shepard dog. A friend was using my .45 Long Colt Ruger with a light handload (8.5 gr Unique w/255 lead SWC; about 850 fps) to dispatch said dog. The dog had earned its death sentence by chasing cattle on a dairy farm and was standing facing the shooter head-on, presenting a stem-to-stern shot at about 15 yards. At the shot, I saw dirt kick up behind the dog--I thought he'd missed. But the dog simply wilted, dead before he hit the ground. The bullet went in dead-center of the chest and exited the rear of the right leg, up close to the tail. That was well over two feet of penetration. I don't think you're going to keep that one inside a person. In contrast, I have seen .25-06's and .243's fail to exit a coyote hit broadside. I think you'd stand a lot better chance of keeping a 125 gr .357 Mag inside than you would a 230 FMJ .45ACP.
One example (of a few I've seen) is the penetration observed on a big German Shepard dog. A friend was using my .45 Long Colt Ruger with a light handload (8.5 gr Unique w/255 lead SWC; about 850 fps) to dispatch said dog. The dog had earned its death sentence by chasing cattle on a dairy farm and was standing facing the shooter head-on, presenting a stem-to-stern shot at about 15 yards. At the shot, I saw dirt kick up behind the dog--I thought he'd missed. But the dog simply wilted, dead before he hit the ground. The bullet went in dead-center of the chest and exited the rear of the right leg, up close to the tail. That was well over two feet of penetration. I don't think you're going to keep that one inside a person. In contrast, I have seen .25-06's and .243's fail to exit a coyote hit broadside. I think you'd stand a lot better chance of keeping a 125 gr .357 Mag inside than you would a 230 FMJ .45ACP.
Birdhunter1
Veteran Member
FMJ ammo is supposed to pass throgh though, that is it's purpose. A hollow point or soft tip is not liekly to pass through it's target like that.
Also with the .25-.06 and the .243 they were most liekly using ballistic tip ammo that is'a penetratign roudn it is a come part inside and do damage roudn, like a self defense load basicly is designed.
Also with the .25-.06 and the .243 they were most liekly using ballistic tip ammo that is'a penetratign roudn it is a come part inside and do damage roudn, like a self defense load basicly is designed.
cp1969,
Granted, different rounds perform diferently under different circumstances. At 15yds, most rounds would pass straight through. Especially something with some weight to it. My .454 made an exit hole the same diameter as the entrance hole on a whitetail at 5yds. 325gr JHP bullet in the 1200fps range if I remember correctly.
The point most of us are making is that a slower heavier bullet with maximum expansion is less likely to go through a target than a small fast moving round. They dont have as much time to expand, nor mass to expand. I would relate it to a car accident. A motorcyle can cut through a car at speed, while another car or truck would just mangle the object because of the mass and energy. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Granted, different rounds perform diferently under different circumstances. At 15yds, most rounds would pass straight through. Especially something with some weight to it. My .454 made an exit hole the same diameter as the entrance hole on a whitetail at 5yds. 325gr JHP bullet in the 1200fps range if I remember correctly.
The point most of us are making is that a slower heavier bullet with maximum expansion is less likely to go through a target than a small fast moving round. They dont have as much time to expand, nor mass to expand. I would relate it to a car accident. A motorcyle can cut through a car at speed, while another car or truck would just mangle the object because of the mass and energy. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...slower heavier bullet with maximum expansion ... )</font>
My experience has been that these are mutally exclusive. Expansion is extremely reliant upon velocity and below 900 fps or so, expansion of JSP or JHP pistol bullets is unpredictable. I guess expansion is good but I never felt you needed it in a pistol bullet if you started with enough caliber in the first place.
My experience has been that these are mutally exclusive. Expansion is extremely reliant upon velocity and below 900 fps or so, expansion of JSP or JHP pistol bullets is unpredictable. I guess expansion is good but I never felt you needed it in a pistol bullet if you started with enough caliber in the first place.
Why would you feel expansion is not needed? The full energy of the round will not be excerted on the target if it passes through without expansion. The best way for the energy to be transfered, is for the bullet to remain inside the target. Therefore, if the bullet expands more force is excerted and it is less likely to exit. Is't that correct?