FEL Cylinder leak

[Farmerford]

Carl's discussion of dropping oil and when to worry about it brings back fond memories.

As a teenager in the mid 1950's on a south Georgia farm, I told my father one summer evening at supper that the John Deere A I had been pulling a tiller with was leaking oil from the crankshaft seal (flywheel end) and needed repair. He responded that the tractor naturally used about two quarts of SAE 40 per long (6am to 9pm) day in hot weather and not to worry about it. I responded that he was ignoring imminent disaster.

He told me to measure how long between drops of oil the next day. I did, and reported to him that evening that it was 15 seconds between drops, or 4 drops per minute. He laughed and said that it takes 10,000 drops of hot oil to make a quart, so at that rate it would take 2,500 minutes, or over 40 hours to leak a quart.

Naturally, I did not believe him, so the next morning when I topped up the oil I cut the top off of one of the quart oil cans (metal in those days) and hung it with baling wire under the tractor to catch the drips. When I went back to the house for dinner (that's what we called the noon meal back then) I looked in the oil can: it was less than one inch deep in oil. So the old man was right, as usual, but I didn't tell him so.

Now, over 50 years later, I wonder how he knew that 10,000 drops equals one quart. Wish I had asked him.

 

[Carl_NH]

Farmerford,

Thats a great story - the way things used to be - practical and knowledgable.. I think we are so accustomed to leak free operation today when anything leaks we think "failure is imminent".

I grew up running a JD 420 tractor, 2 bottom plow, disc and my dad sowed the wheat and barley with me feeding the drill fertilizer and seed as needed. When it came to harvesting, I was home in the summer when dad worked so I got to plow, bale hay, disc, run the combine - an Allis Chalmers Model 60 after each round you emptied the bin into bags. Not lots of fun..

Probably the best thing my dad taught me was, if it broke when I was running it I had to fix it.. The next thing was before you go to work grease, and lube the machine, check the belts, and finally if it doesnt sound right - stop..

These three things still stick with me today.

 

[brfd15]

Thanks for sharing! Hopefully I can pass on some knowledge from my dad to my 2 boys. I do know that I will never install 2 diffrent screw heads on one install like my dad use to do. That use to drive me crazy! LOL. It reminds me of a young man that was on probation at the fire dept. and it was time for chores. He broke out the vacum and didnt know that the handle released down to push and pull. We let him vacum the the station with the handle in the upright position.:laughing:

Ron

 

[Farmerford]

Carl:

We may be related! I did all those things too, including bottom plowing with a JD 420, except we planted oats instead of barley. And the combine was an Allis Chalmers; I don't remember the number, but it must have been fairly small since a JD 40 pulled it with ease. Ours did not have a hopper, so the grain flowed directly into sacks from a two spout elevator; one man had to ride the combine platform to change out and tie the sacks. With oats that was the worst job in the world; the only thing that comes close to itching liking oat chaff is the loose fiberglass insulation in old attics.

If you tell me you baled the hay into round bales with an AC Rota-Baler I will know we are related!

Ron:

We may be related too! My Dad used to do the same thing with fine and coarse threaded bolts on the shanks on cultivators. His tool box was as orderly as a surgeon's instrument tray, but with those bolts confusion reigned.

Thanks for sharing your stories.

 

[Carl_NH]

Farmerford,

No rotabaler - JD baler that dropped them on the ground which we collected with a P/U truck, then got a kick baler and wagons in the late 60s. Our AC combine had the sacks too and I was the sacker - youre right about a dirty job. My dad converted it to a box with plywood and steel channel and unload chute, so it could run with one person and empty every round - held about 8 sacks of grain. This way I could run it during the day when grain was dry and he was at work..

Didnt have the bolt/thread issue - dad was particular about that, but I was known to use whatever bolt with nuts that were available and fit.

 

[Desert Tractor]

Thanks for the update. Keep me posted.

I believe that Carl hit this one dead center -- I have been operating the tractor fairly heavily over the past few days and the "leak" is now a joke -- I'm forgetting about it... there is now only a very slight moisture by the clip ring and I hardly ever see any "drops" from the valve -- Maybe in a year of two if I don't have anything to do I will take it apart and see what the deal is.. then again, maybe not.

 

[brfd15]

Well I changed out a couple of hoses on the bucket and found a couple more leaks at another hose. Then the cylinders started leaking worse. I guess I have my work cut out for me. Where is the best place to find the seal kits for the cylinders. If I understand right there are outer and inner seals? Looking forward to learning something new.

Thanks Ron

 

[J_J]

Farmerford,

Your dad was close

Below data:

Not scientific, but close enough.

60 drops = 1 teaspoon
3 tea spoons = 1 table spoon
2 table spoons= 1 oz

Total of 360 drops

360 drops X 32 oz - 11,520 drops

2889 min per qt

48 hrs per qt

 

[brfd15]

Thanks! that clears it all up.

 

[lostcause]

i just rebuilt one of the bucket cylinders on my jd770/70 loader. of all the o-rings and seals, only two were difficult at all, and one was downright impossible without a special tool.

there was a square edge hard ring seal on the outside of the piston that was hard to get on without scratching/cutting the seal, but it just took some oil and patience.

the really bad one was the seal on the inside of the gland. i don't know what the rod diameter is, but i think it is around 1 1/4", and trying to stuff a 1 1/2" diameter seal into an internal slot through a 1 1/4" hole is hard. the instructions tell you to fold it into the shape of a kidney, but since it was so small, it was not possible with human hands. i ended up running up to the local hydraulics shop and they had a special 3-prong tool that folds the seal up and then it dropped right in. took him about 15 seconds to install it after i messed with it for the better part of an hour.

i think a larger diameter rod would not be anywhere near as bad. this was the first cylinder i've ever had apart, so i don't know if they are all the same, or even at least similar.