FEL lift and tilt/dump issue

   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #1  

Terry Gable

New member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
12
Location
Florida
Tractor
2003 Farm Pro 2425
Latest issue with the Farm Pro 2425, it sat unused for a couple months and when I used it this last weekend, I noticed the Hydraulic fluid was low so I filled it. I know there is a leak in one of the FEL cylinders so expected low oil. Initially the arms lifted and the bucket would operate correctly but a few minutes later the arms would only raise if the steering wheel was turned full right and rocked back and forth and the bucket required assistance to level. The steering, back lift arms, and PTO work fine and I was able to run the brush hog. I was thinking there may be air in the system but am not sure how to remedy that, any ideas? The FEL data plate says its a 2004 and model number appears to be 03962.

Thanks,
Terry
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #2  
That sounds like the safety relief in the loader control valve may be stuck open. These are usually plummed with the pump output going directly to the loader valve, then from there to a priority valve which diverts the flow from the 3PH to the steering when you turn the wheel. IF the loader control valve safety cartridge is stuck open, the path of least resistance when a loader control valve is operated, instead of moving the loader, is out thru the safety and on down stream to steering and 3PH. Working the steering increases the back pressure a little at the loader, so some of the fluid passes out the working ports and moves the loader arms and bucket(probably not at full strength).

You may be able to pull the relief valve without changing the set point to inspect for debris in the valve. I know some of the chinese control valves, the relief cartridge is held in place with a 4 bolt flange and comes right out when the 4 scews are removed. IF the adjustment gets changed, you will need to be able to connect a gauge to one of the working ports to properly(safely) set the relief pressure.

As for purging air, that is easy. Simply cycle all the hydraulic cylinders to their end stops in both directions several times. This will expell any air in the system back into the reservoir, providing the source for the air has been removed...
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Thanks Ron, do you have any pictures or information specifically for the loader control valve? I bought this tractor used and it had no manuals. Is there any outward indication of the safety relief position?

Thanks again,
Terry
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #4  
The Farm Pro 2425 only have about 3 GPM hyd flow.

Don't see how the power steering can boost the hyd to the loader. It is usually in parallel or if in series, it is first in line.

The power steering normally has priority over any other hyd function.

Have you checked the hyd pressure with a gage?

If you had a FEL relief valve stuck open, the 3pt would not work normal.

Just cycle all the cyl to purge all the air.
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Thanks, will mess with it this weekend.

Terry
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #6  
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #7  
Don't see how the power steering can boost the hyd to the loader. It is usually in parallel or if in series, it is first in line. The power steering normally has priority over any other hyd function.
Not on the Jinma 200 series, loader is first in line after the pump. I have seen this problem before, and a little bit of backpressure on the valve forces fluid out to the working ports, same as if the safety was closed. Maybe this drawing will help...


If you had a FEL relief valve stuck open, the 3pt would not work normal.

UH, yes it would. JJ if you had one in front of you you would see why. In the drawing, there are only 2 lines to the loader, so the flow either passes thru the open center, the working ports/cylinders or thru the safety. Wether it is relieving or not, or wether the loader is working or not has no real effect on steering or 3PH as the flow out of the loader is always the same to feed steering and 3PH. The steering has priority over the 3PH. IMO, the loader really was an afterthought on this tractor.
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #8  
If your schematic is correct, then the hyd circuit is poorly designed .
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #9  
It isn't too bad untill you put the FEL on:)
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #10  
To the Op, if your valve is like mine, if you look down on the valve body from above, you will see a large plug. The relief valve is opposite that plug therefore out the bottom. On mine, the relief is pretty obvious because it is the only adjustable thing. I took out the top plug, spring, and ball and I could look into it an see the relief spool top. That ball and spring are not associated with the relief, they are instead the check valve. But after loosening the two bolts underneath that does hold the relief in, I could push it out from above through the check ball opening.

If this does not sound like your valve, it likely isn't. Mine is a 304 circa 2004.

Probably not related to your problem:
On mine, the problem was that the spring that was supposed to hold the chromed relief spool in position was not strong enough to make it close again due to roughness. I don't know why or how. The tractor was "new to me" and the loader did not work when I bought the tractor. So you just continue onward and upward without trying to guess too much about what the previous owner did.

When I pushed the spool into place with my finger, I'd get resistance and then a click as it moved into position. I repeated that over and over, and realized that can't be right. So I took the block section that contained the relief completely off, and used my drill and some drill rod heavily taped up with vinyl tape to spin the spool in its bore. I used some Mother's aluminum mag polish as my abrasive, and I lapped the relief spool in the bore only until it would move freely in and out without stiction. Then I cleaned it all up exceedingly well to remove all abrasive and put it all back together with new O-rings.
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #11  
On your control valve, there should be a metal cover at the back of the valve position, held on by two screws or small bolts. Under the cover there is a screw that holds the centering spring in position via a cap arrangement. This screw can come loose and when it does, it affects the operation of the loader. I have had that happen on my loader (2007 vintage).
Assuming the screw has loosenend off, remove the tin can cap on the rear of the valve control block and tighten the screw as hard as you can, safely, to prevent the same problem repeating.
HTH
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Thanks everyone, I just tinkered with it a bit this weekend, nothing that should have impacted operation but tightened a few things and the loader works fine. Next question is what is the lever in the picture that is slightly back of the PTO lever and what is the proper way to engage the PTO without forcing it and grinding gears? Thanks again to all! Lever question.jpg
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Hi Tommy (Affordable), My tractor has the Y385T engine. I was wondering what the price of the manuals is? Unfortunately the guy I bought it from didn't know where any of the documentation was that came with the tractor.
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #14  
Thanks everyone, I just tinkered with it a bit this weekend, nothing that should have impacted operation but tightened a few things and the loader works fine. Next question is what is the lever in the picture that is slightly back of the PTO lever and what is the proper way to engage the PTO without forcing it and grinding gears? Thanks again to all! View attachment 290452

Someone else will have to help with that lever.

My PTO will grind a little. What I try to do is push the clutch all the way in and count for 8-10 seconds and then shift the lever slowly to minimize the consequences of the grinding. If you know for sure your clutch is adjusted right, then whatever grinding that remains will simply have to be accepted unless:

Sometimes I like to put the PTO under load so that it won't turn effortlessly, and then hold the clutch in for a couple of minutes so that the clutch MIGHT polish off whatever is causing it to turn while disengaged. If you think about it, about the only time we disengage the clutch for the PTO is when we want to shift it into gear. Well, it could be that we need to disengage the clutch more frequently while it is not free to turn so we can polish up the clutch a bit (get rid of any light rusting, etc.)
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue #15  
Thanks everyone, I just tinkered with it a bit this weekend, nothing that should have impacted operation but tightened a few things and the loader works fine. Next question is what is the lever in the picture that is slightly back of the PTO lever and what is the proper way to engage the PTO without forcing it and grinding gears? Thanks again to all! View attachment 290452

EE_Bota has it right, gotta give the PTO gearbox components a little time to slow down/stop, so push the clutch in and wait a few seconds to let things stop before you lift the engage lever.

That second lever is the rear differential lock, lift to engage and hold it up as long as you want rear differential locked(won't turn well, but great traction). Great for when one wheel on each axle is spinning. When done with the difflock, let the lever down and while rolling steer back and forth from left to right. That lever pushes in on a spring loaded plunger When the load comes off of the locking pawl, it will snap back out of difflock and the plunger will pop back out against the lever. If you hold your leg over against the lever when lowered, you can usually feel this thru the lever when it pops out.
 
   / FEL lift and tilt/dump issue
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Thanks guys, this is my first tractor and I was told the PTO was never used, he didn't even know what the 3 PH lift lever was for, he said "when ever I accidently hit that lever, those things came up" it still had the cap on the PTO shaft when I hooked up my bush hog.

As usual, you guys came through.
 

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