Gary, at least in my cans (and I'm assuming in the others experiencing this), It will get to the point you are describing then just kind of flop, but it's like the cylinder doesn't fill and it never catches up. It'll just hang there in "flop mode" until you curl it all the way back up then dump again. Then you don't really experience it at all. With mine at least, it doesn't seem to matter what RPM you are running at the time.
FEL question on G3038
- Thread starter kjonfc
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bumperm
Veteran Member
See this, copied from Greentractertalk as for some reason linkind url didn't work . . . it may be that the regen function is the issue as JJ suggests.
"Regen is a "feature" of most modern FEL (Front End Loader) valves, it's on the Dump (joystick far right) circuit, and is also referred to as "Fast Dump". The reason it is nice to have is that without it, the weight of a filled bucket can actually "pull" the bucket down faster then the fluid can enter the other side of the cylinder, this will create a air pocket and give the bucket a "floppy" feeling until the joystick is held in the dump mode a few seconds to refill the cylinder pushing the air past the seals. So we add "regen" or "regenerative" function to the valve.
Regen solves this problem by actually filling both sides of the cylinder at the same time with hydraulic fluid. But how will that work you might ask? Well, because there is more volume on the side of the cylinder that extends it since the rod is taking up space in the other side, it "overpowers" the rod side and lets the cylinder extend-thereby dumping the bucket. So since now both sides of the cylinder are "pressurized", the air pocket can not develop, eliminating the "floppy" bucket syndrome. One other added bonus is that the bucket actually dumps faster due to the higher flow rate required to do all this, that's why it's referred to as "fast dump" sometimes.
So, now you may be asking “This is cool and all that, but why do I need to know about it?” The answer to that is simple, if you ever try to run a snow plow with two SA (single acting) cylinders, or a cylinder that drives a chute rotator on a snowblower you will soon find out that they won’t work if you push the joystick to far right in the regen mode. The plow won’t work because since both lines are pressurized-both cylinders will be trying to extend at the same time binding everything up. The rotator won’t work because there is no weight pushing the cylinder closed like there is on the loader.
On most, if not all John Deere tractors there is a “lockout” the limits how far the joystick travels to the right to keep it out of the regen mode."
bumper
"Regen is a "feature" of most modern FEL (Front End Loader) valves, it's on the Dump (joystick far right) circuit, and is also referred to as "Fast Dump". The reason it is nice to have is that without it, the weight of a filled bucket can actually "pull" the bucket down faster then the fluid can enter the other side of the cylinder, this will create a air pocket and give the bucket a "floppy" feeling until the joystick is held in the dump mode a few seconds to refill the cylinder pushing the air past the seals. So we add "regen" or "regenerative" function to the valve.
Regen solves this problem by actually filling both sides of the cylinder at the same time with hydraulic fluid. But how will that work you might ask? Well, because there is more volume on the side of the cylinder that extends it since the rod is taking up space in the other side, it "overpowers" the rod side and lets the cylinder extend-thereby dumping the bucket. So since now both sides of the cylinder are "pressurized", the air pocket can not develop, eliminating the "floppy" bucket syndrome. One other added bonus is that the bucket actually dumps faster due to the higher flow rate required to do all this, that's why it's referred to as "fast dump" sometimes.
So, now you may be asking “This is cool and all that, but why do I need to know about it?” The answer to that is simple, if you ever try to run a snow plow with two SA (single acting) cylinders, or a cylinder that drives a chute rotator on a snowblower you will soon find out that they won’t work if you push the joystick to far right in the regen mode. The plow won’t work because since both lines are pressurized-both cylinders will be trying to extend at the same time binding everything up. The rotator won’t work because there is no weight pushing the cylinder closed like there is on the loader.
On most, if not all John Deere tractors there is a “lockout” the limits how far the joystick travels to the right to keep it out of the regen mode."
bumper
J_J
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kjonfc
Some valves have regen in the first part of lever movement and others have it in the last part of lever travel.
When you shift the bucket lever to the right, you might be in regen at the gitgo, so do this test.
With the bucket flat on the ground, push the lever a little to the right and hold it to see if the bucket will curl down and lift the front wheels off the ground.
Now, push the lever to the far right and do the same test. Try and lift the front wheels off the ground.
Regen has less power, but will dump faster. You are feeding the base end of cyl, the pump flow plus the cyl flow, almost double the normal flow.
Non-regen is the power mode for curl down.
Some valves have regen in the first part of lever movement and others have it in the last part of lever travel.
When you shift the bucket lever to the right, you might be in regen at the gitgo, so do this test.
With the bucket flat on the ground, push the lever a little to the right and hold it to see if the bucket will curl down and lift the front wheels off the ground.
Now, push the lever to the far right and do the same test. Try and lift the front wheels off the ground.
Regen has less power, but will dump faster. You are feeding the base end of cyl, the pump flow plus the cyl flow, almost double the normal flow.
Non-regen is the power mode for curl down.
Ok, so I did the test last night and here's what I found. First, if I start with the lever slightly to the right just to where the bucket starts to move, very slowly, it will pick the front off the ground. If I curl it back and try it again with the lever all the way to the right, it still works only faster, but the test is not exactly all the way valid because if I dump and curl and dump and curl, the flop problem doesn't happen anyway. I'll have to try it again today after it's been sitting (I don't know how long before it'll do it again) and try the test with the lever all the way to the right the first time. I did notice that after I'd done the test initially and all seemed ok, when I raised it up and dumped, it would flop, but then the cylinder would catch up which it wasn't doing before. I'm thinking that the regen isn't working as it should. Or, is it possible that LS tractors don't have/use regen? Or is that just unheard of in tractors today?
If you are not far from your dealer go there and try on one of his tractors and talk to him it is new and I am sure he wants you happy.
Reread my post just you go try the dump on one of his tractors.
Hinomotoman
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My dealer called yesterday. He said there's nothing wrong with it. The new ones on his lot do the same thing. I guess I'll just have to get used to it.
Eugene
Eugene
