Loader FEL stuck in Float position

   / FEL stuck in Float position #1  

Post Carbon

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
44
Location
Pacific NorthWest
Tractor
Kubota B7800, LA402 FEL
So, this summer I took apart my entire FEL control because it wouldn't raise the loader anymore at all. The one side was completely crunchy rusted--in fact, I completely replaced the ball bearings, the spring, and the little cup dealie that holds all that in place. I drilled the holes that some guy on a forum recommended to let the water out of both valves. Greased it up, reconnected and it worked like a charm.

BUT I never tried the float--just didn't think of it. UNTIL TODAY, when I needed it. It resisted a bit for me to pop it into float, but I shoved it, AND NOW, I can't get it out of float. I really yanked down on the control lever; if I yank any harder I will bend it. It's thoroughly stuck in float. The roll up and back works fine.

So knowing that I totally rehabbed it only 2 months ago, and greased it well at that time, what do you all suppose could be the problem?

Very puzzled,

PCP
 
   / FEL stuck in Float position #2  
My guess would be that you have the detent balls in wrong, and they have jammed the spool. Have you tried to remove the cup?
 
   / FEL stuck in Float position
  • Thread Starter
#3  
My guess would be that you have the detent balls in wrong, and they have jammed the spool. Have you tried to remove the cup?

At this point I haven't taken it apart at all--still in the field. Wanted to check first if there was something obvious and easy before I rip everything apart again.

As memory serves, it didn't seem that there was any wrong way to put the detent balls in wrong. Spring in first, 4 bearings held in place by grease, then the bigger bearing on top. Hold it down with a pencil eraser, push it, and slip the cup over it. This method was described in another very helpful forum post.

Well, it seems I'm going to have to drag things out of the field somehow, and disconnect everything again, ugh.
 
   / FEL stuck in Float position #4  
If you switch the loader up/down hoses over to the bucket tilt valve spool you can use the working valve to raise the loader high enough to get it to the barn without dragging anything.
 
   / FEL stuck in Float position
  • Thread Starter
#5  
OK, I went out and took the valve apart in the field. Disconnected hydraulics, took off outer lower cap, and disconnected the pin at the top, slid out the entire shaft, and took that into the house.

I can't see that the detent balls could be the problem, as it seems there's only one way to reinstall, according to the parts diagram (below). I took off the inner cup (red 6), and bearings (red 7 and 4) came out. Pulled out the tiny spring too (red 5). All seemed in working order.

I wondered if possibly the problem could be the big spring on the shaft, seen in photo 'Valve1' (or as red 1 in diagram). It seems a bit crunchy, although both ends (red 2a & 2b) move on the shaft. I don't remember if I took that apart last time, but I don't think so. The main shaft (red 8 in diagram) is a bright metal, which the detent holder (red 4) is a darker metal and appears to be a separate part, so they must come apart, but I didn't want to force them. Could 2a & 2b be jamming on the shaft?

To put back together the bearings, my understanding is that the cup holds in the 4 bearings, which holds in the big bearing, which holds down the spring. The photos show this process.

Photo
valve2 -- Replace the spring
valve3 -- Put back the 4 small ball bearings, using grease to keep them in place
valve4 -- Set large ball bearing on top
valve5 -- Put cup just over bearings so bottom edge rests on the 4, take a pencil eraser, and push the ball bearing down with one hand while pulling the cup down quickly to capture the 4 bearings just as the big bearing passes them.

SO THEN I went out and reinstalled the valve (it's dark by now, and muddy to boot), started it up, and IT WORKED. I could raise and lower the loader arm, along with the roll. So I tried to back out (I'm stuck in a rut) using the loader and the bucket to push myself back, AND DARN IF THE WHOLE THING JAMMED AGAIN. AAUUGGHHH :pullinghair: Again the roll works for the bucket, but the loader arms don't raise or lower. It's like it's stuck in float again.

So seeing the whole process and what I did, anyone have any ideas?

Can I just leave out the big bearing or perhaps ALL the bearings and give up my float position possibility, at least for now? I don't know if that's even possible. Or maybe it's that big spring that's jamming and I've got to somehow get that large spring off.

I'd like to get out of the field, and I need everything to work to lever myself out. Rain's coming..... PCP

FELvalve402.pngvalve1.jpgvalve2.jpgvalve3.jpgvalve4.jpgvalve5.jpg
 
   / FEL stuck in Float position
  • Thread Starter
#6  
If you switch the loader up/down hoses over to the bucket tilt valve spool you can use the working valve to raise the loader high enough to get it to the barn without dragging anything.

That's brilliant, Harry, I would not have thought of that. Will use that knowledge another time, though, as this time I do need the FEL to work to get myself out of the mud.....see above!

PCP
 
   / FEL stuck in Float position #7  
You could lift up the loader as high as possible using the curl. Now measures the distance the cylinders have extended, and go back to the shop and cut two pieces of angle iron this long. Place them over the cylinder rods so they can't retract and curl the bucket back up. If you have QA fittings on the loader it would be easier to use that method. Why do you need the float function to get unstuck?
 
   / FEL stuck in Float position #8  
The same thing happened a couple of years ago to me on my 2620. Dealer fixed it under "warranty" and said it is a common problem with the type of valve on that unit. He didn't mention what he did and because I didn't have to pay I didn't pursue the matter. Might want to check with your dealer's service dept and see if they can provide any insight.
 
   / FEL stuck in Float position #9  
Spool valve should operate without balls & springs installed BUT valve will no longer be self centering to neutral position. One will need to manually move control handle to neutral position.
 
   / FEL stuck in Float position
  • Thread Starter
#10  
If you switch the loader up/down hoses over to the bucket tilt valve spool you can use the working valve to raise the loader high enough to get it to the barn without dragging anything.

Harry, I swapped the hoses this morning so that I could use the loader arms to push the bucket against the ground and raise the front wheels high enuf to get a bunch of wood into the rut it was stuck in. We filled that rut, let the tractor back down, raised the bucket, and backed right out. Great! That sure took care of the 'being stuck' problem. Doing it early in the morning also helped, as it froze last night and the ground was harder.

Now I still have to figure out what could be causing that detent to get stuck in float. On these forums, usually it seems people can't keep it IN float, that it keeps popping out. My problem is the opposite.....

But at least I'm out of the field and the mud.
 

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