fertilizer question

[WTA]

I have 12 acres of Giant bermuda hayfields and 10 acres of Alfalfa here in hot and dry West Texas. I have to irrigate all the time which is no big deal and I don't mind paying for that but fertilizer prices have gotten way out of hand this year so I began looking for another company to buy from.

I came across a site selling a brand called grasshopper fertilizer. It's a dry bagged fertilizer that is mixed in a spray tank and sprayed on the fields and he recommends and uses it on his bermuda hay fields. It sounds similar to something like miracle grow in a way.
I am leaning heavily towards buying a pallet full of it, which will get me and my neighbor at least through the entire year but I've just never heard of anything like this stuff and wanted to ask you alls opinions on it first.

The website is Welcome to The Sharp Ranch

To me it looks like a great deal and it has all of the chemicals we typically need according to our soil samples. It's just a lot different from spraying or spreading regular old urea or other forms of nitrogen we normally do here.

So what does everyone think about it? worth it or not? Thanks.

 

[LoneCowboy]

IMO, from looking at the website
it's a scam

they claim it's twice as effective as regular 30-10-10 (even though that's what the numbers mean, 30lbs of nitrogen per 100lbs applied, but they say 1 bag per two acres. You simply can't get 30lbs of nitrogen per acres out of 25lbs of mix. math doesn't work.

here's the key part: "Pasture: 5 to 15 lbs per acre, every 15 days"

hmm, that doesn't save much off applying real fertilizer once in the spring and putting it into the soil.

 

[WTA]

I hadn't thought of it that way.

I do wish I could get away with only one application of fertilizer in the spring though.
Going strictly by our soil and plant analysis I have to put out 90 pounds nitrogen in the early spring durring greenup then 60 pounds per acre after each cutting as soon as the hay is off the ground. I cut every 28 days and usually get 5-6 cuttings off the bermuda so that's a lot of nitrogen!

I'm glad our alfalfa doesn't require nitrogen. That fertilizer is much cheaper!

 

[LoneCowboy]

that's a lot of nitrogen. (or some poor soil)

can you do a grass/alfalfa mix? and let the legumes feed some nitrogen back into the soil? (I realize you're in texas and it works different here, but just throwing ideas out).

 

[MLinOleMiss]

WTA,
Any chicken farmers around your area? Lots of nitrogen in chicken litter.

 

[RobJ]

IMO, from looking at the website
it's a scam

they claim it's twice as effective as regular 30-10-10 (even though that's what the numbers mean, 30lbs of nitrogen per 100lbs applied, but they say 1 bag per two acres. You simply can't get 30lbs of nitrogen per acres out of 25lbs of mix. math doesn't work.

here's the key part: "Pasture: 5 to 15 lbs per acre, every 15 days"

hmm, that doesn't save much off applying real fertilizer once in the spring and putting it into the soil.

Liquid is going to be a little different. Plants will react the next day or so. It'll get right into the plant, no watering, and it won't sit in the ground waiting for water or be washed away by a hard rain.

Worse case is he could try it on a couple acres and compare the costs and output vs. regular fertilizer. Also factor in the cost if irrigation if there is less if that.

Good Luck,
Rob

 

[Blagadan]

My neighbour started using chicken poop as fertiliser this year. Smells bad for a week or two (sweaty feet), but after that it's not too bad. A lot of my neighbours are complaining about it. I dont know if he will be using chicken litter next year.
Regarding your question, Granular fert is the best way to go by far, a slow release is much better than a quick hit liquid application. I tried liquid fert last year but I was not satisfied with it. I went back to granular this year even though its almost twice the price it was last year...

 

[jimg]

I hadn't thought of it that way.

I do wish I could get away with only one application of fertilizer in the spring though.
Going strictly by our soil and plant analysis I have to put out 90 pounds nitrogen in the early spring durring greenup then 60 pounds per acre after each cutting as soon as the hay is off the ground. I cut every 28 days and usually get 5-6 cuttings off the bermuda so that's a lot of nitrogen!

I'm glad our alfalfa doesn't require nitrogen. That fertilizer is much cheaper!

It is a lot and one of the reasons I decided not to grow Bermuda. OTOH you dont have to put down that much N either. Will the $$ spent on N give a profit in whatever youre producing (hay or animal carcass)? It would be interesting to know what youre DM tonnage id w/ 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% less N after each cut and at green up. Have you tried that? You could set aside 5ac for this sort of experiment. Might be real helpful in the end.

 

[4720 OWNER]

Chicken poop fresh on a field is awful. Compost it a year or even 6 mo will help lots and still give the N boost without burning. Or have mixed it with horse or cattle to balance out.

 

[WTA]

I have never really calculated tonage, just bales. Our front pasture is 7 acres and I use it for testing some.
Typically with 32-0-0 dry fertilizer, as per the labs recommendations and applying 60 pounds per acre, I get between 400 and 500 bales every 28 days. They run 60 pounds a piece. Our max so far on that 7 acre field has been 640 bales one time last summer when we had received about 12 inches of rain on one month. That's extremely rare. I've only gotten 1 inch so far this year.

I've tried liquid before here too but it was just urea I think and was 46-0-0 if I remember right. I still applied it at the 60 pounds per acre rate. Our yields were always considerably lower because I am guessing it evaporated off before the sprinkler could soak it in. It normally takes me 4 days to work the big gun around that field.

They claim this fertilizer I found on the net doesn't require watering in and that is one of the big things that caught my eye.
I wish e had pictures of his bermuda fields growing like I do of mine though. I'd love to see how it looks. This is mine right before the best cutting I've had ever on it.

We have about 50 chickens. The grass is a lot greener where they normally graze, that's for sure. There is a corner of my alfalfa field where they spend a lot of time too and it grows like you wouldn't believe even with them grazing it.
I don't feed my chickens in the warm months so they just free range.

 

[jimg]

To get 60# of N/ac using 32-0-0 you have to spread 187.5#/ac (1312.5 for the 7ac...half that for after cutting application). On avg if you get 65 bales/ac @ 60#/bale that would be almost 2 TDM/ac/cutting. Thats a yearly total of 10-12 TDM/ac using total N input of 2.6 - 2.9T N. I think your yield is very good compared to most places. If you had reliable rain Im sure it would likely be better. I think it would be interesting to know if lesser amts of N still produce TDM w/i the 10-12 range.

 

[RobJ]

I have never really calculated tonage, just bales. Our front pasture is 7 acres and I use it for testing some.
Typically with 32-0-0 dry fertilizer, as per the labs recommendations and applying 60 pounds per acre, I get between 400 and 500 bales every 28 days. They run 60 pounds a piece. Our max so far on that 7 acre field has been 640 bales one time last summer when we had received about 12 inches of rain on one month. That's extremely rare. I've only gotten 1 inch so far this year.

I read this and said WTH???? Then I figured you are baling square bales not 5x5 round bales that everyone does around here. I thought that some hay field dude!! And 7-acres!!

 

[WTA]

I do put a lot of time into it. I treat that front field kinda like my lawn. I don't even really have much of a lawn except that to be honest. When I planted it about 3 years ago everyone thought I was nuts and said it wouldn't grow. I guess I showed them. I heard the same thing about my alfalfa too. We only planted 2 acres of that last fall and it's already about 8-10 inches tall and as lush as can be. I should be baling that in the next couple weeks when noone else has even come out of dormancy yet.

I'm wondering if this company is figuring their rates of nitrogen based on the amount that can actually be absorbed? It is very different for dry or regular liquid fertilizer here. With our desert climate we are told by the fertilizer supplyers to water it in within a couple of days or it mostly evaporates off.
I really got a talking to from a doctor at the local university about that too. She was big on not wasting or using more nitrogen than is necessary. I'm only using what is necessary but sometimes I can't water it in properly and a couple times we''ve gotten a flooding rain that seemed like it just washed it all away too. The johnson grass in our ditch out front sure does grow good. I hate that stuff.

 

[RobJ]

Don't you have to replant alfalfa every couple years to keep it going good? I have relatives in Montana, seen a lot of it up there but there was something like this to keep it going good. Don't recall.

Rob

 

[WTA]

It seems to run about 5 to 6 years around here when the stand get's thinned out enough to have to replant. I've learned that you can't replant the same field for a couple years at least either. The alfalfa creates a chemical in the ground that keeps new alfalfa plants from germinating for a while I was told.

I have two fields in the back reserved for it and I figured I'd plant wheat in the other one in the fall then when the alfalfa peters out switch them and take advantage of the high nitrogen content soil that the alfalfa was in for a while.

I hope it works that way.

I'm trying to figure out what to plant in my other big field now. It's also about 7 acres and I had just finished plowing and contouring the field for planting more giant bermuda but I'm kinda screwed now. We had several quotes for well replacement out there and then I called the county water guy that is an expert on our aquifer and he told me I'd likely be wasting my money doing anything to that well. It's a 6 inch 5 stage turbine pump for flood irrigation that was totaly refurbished about 8 years ago but since I haven't had a use for it I haven't used it other than letting it run for 2-3 hours once or twice a year. Now it's dry as a bone. It looks like I need to have a new well dug entirely so that really sucks! If I can't irrigate that side of the field then I'm stuck with planting only native grasses.
That's a problem too because NOONE around here has a grass drill that can do it! buying a good grass drill will set me back about as much as a new well. I haven't had any luck at all finding a used one either.

 

[LoneCowboy]

Don't you have to replant alfalfa every couple years to keep it going good? I have relatives in Montana, seen a lot of it up there but there was something like this to keep it going good. Don't recall.

Rob

Mature alfalfa plants basically kill their young. They put some chemical that prohibits other ones from growning near it. So the seed never gets going. So, basically the entire field is the same age.

There are other legume options. clovers (although somewhat shorter lived, but they keep reseeding), sainfoin, birdsfoot trefoil, milkevetch, etc

none of which kill their young so you don't have to keep reseeding. All of which make good palatable hay (albeit with differences) and most of which are pretty hardy.

 

[chickm1]

I live in extreme southeast Texas. Just about all that will grow here is bahia. What I understand about the 30 10 10 Grasshopper fertilizer, is that you mix one bag with 30 gallons of water and apply to 2 acres, and it is equivalent to putting out 200lbs per acre of granular 30 10 10. I have a 4 acre field, and just bought 2 bags of it, and plan to spray it next week. If it works, the other fields will get the same treatment. We'll see. Granular fertilizer here is 19 on the N2, and don't remember the other numbers, but it is running $765 per ton. So naturally, I am going to give this a shot.

 

[WTA]

Oh boy that's expensive. I never did try out that grasshopper fertilizer. Every time I get ready to go buy some the cost of diesel goes up again and I just can't afford the trip. One of these days. I will be ready to fertilize again in a few days as soon as I get my hay off the ground.

 

[bumpercrop]

I read this thread earlier this summer regarding Grasshopper fertilizer and became interested. I later had it recommended to me by an Ag Teacher in East TX. Since then I have used it on a few fields.

I have used ammonium nitrate for decades and have also tried a number of liquid blends. Grasshopper seemed appealing because you will absorb and use 100% rather than the 20% with traditional fertilizers. A fertilizer that can be absorbed without rain and could be mixed with herbicide seemed worth a try.

The actual weight of the dry mix per acre was 12-13 lbs. It seemed light at first compared to 250lbs of dry commercial fertilizer. Then again, this 12-13lbs was going directly into my grass vs the 250lbs of commercial going into my soil. I was advised that applying more at one time would burn my grass. The grass greened up within 2 days and within 21 days - I was cutting hay. I have since used it on Coastal Bermuda, Bahai, and mixed grass pastures.

My horse hay has maintained its quality 17-18%. Although I have not yet tested my soil to see its effect. From what I understand, soil should maintain its mineral levels. With grass being fed directly with a foliar fertilizer, less nutritional demand is placed on the soil.

It may not be as stout as Ammonium Nitrate - but this year I will be able to sell my hay for less and have a larger profit margin.

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Very interesting posts on Grasshopper...where are you guys in East Texas buying it?

I think I will try it on my new Tifton 9 Bahia hay fields.