fescue with rhizomes

[rwinter]

I have seen a couple of grass seed companies sell new varieties of tall fescue with rhizomes that faciliate the spreading so the grass does not just grow in clumps. Gimmick or legit?

T.L.C. Tall Fescue Blend Featuring Titan Limited Tall Fescue with self-repairing rhizomes

Defiance XRE Tall Fescue Grass|Turf Type Tall Fescue Grass Seed|Fescue.com


Anyone have an experience with any of these? Some seem to suggest that they do not work as well as advertised

 

[EE_Bota]

I can't say for sure, but I am hopeful. I overseeded with it this past fall, so it is too soon to tell.
At the time, I researched the actual seed varieties in the TLC, and it had pictures of the rhizomes presumably filling in bald spots. Have you looked at the studies of the actual seed varieties?

I did not have to pay a premium for the TLC (at least I didn't think I paid a premium) so I thought that even if it didn't pan out, nothing was lost.

But the individual seed varieties in the TLC are recommended for sports fields, so I thought that was promising.

 

[CosmoAU]

I maintain the grounds of a country club in AL. so I see all kinds of things on all the new grasses that come out. Yes, these do spread by the rhizomes. However, if you are expecting it to fill in bare spots like bermudagrass does you are going to be disappointed. Better than nothing though.

 

[thatguy]

Interesting.. Id like to hear more about it from a independent third party..

brian

 

[CosmoAU]

Interesting.. Id like to hear more about it from a independent third party..

brian

I'm not sure if you were asking for more of my opinion or if you were wanting another. If you were asking me, what would you like to know? I will answer anything I can. I'm full of all kinds of useless (to most folks) information.

 

[thatguy]

I'm not sure if you were asking for more of my opinion or if you were wanting another. If you were asking me, what would you like to know? I will answer anything I can. I'm full of all kinds of useless (to most folks) information.

I wasnt doubting YOUR commentary - sorry for the confusion.. I meant Id like to see more ppl LIKE you tell us more about it (not the website propaganda)..

I have always used Kentucky 31 or a fescue blend for our yard here in VA and have had good results.. Do you know heat tolerant/drought resistant this new 'breed' of grass is?

You mentioned we would be disappointed if we thought it would spread in and fill in bare spots.. If it doesnt do that, why is it better than KY31/Fescue?

thanks

Brian

 

[CosmoAU]

It will spread, just not as rapidly as bermudagrass will. Bermuda is the gold standard for growth though in turfgrasses. Except Kikuya(sp?), it's like bermuda on steriods. Most sod farms here grow Houndog or one of the Rebels. They're not new but they are proven. One of the best newer coolseason grasses in the past few years has been thermal bluegrass. The only drawback is it is hard to establish from seed-takes a while to germinate. It will tolerate hotter and drier than most other cool season varieties. I try not to jump on the latest and greatest bandwagon. I worked at a research unit when I was at AU, but there is no substitute for real world use. Over time the varieties will mutate and some mutations will show improved qualities. Plant breeders will then develop these mutations and a new and better grass will be available. Ultimately, my opinion is for yard use, it's tough to beat the time tested turf-type fescues. We have roughly 55 acres of fescue with no irrigation. We used to re-seed it all every year with K-31. about 6-8 years ago we began using turf-type blends and the areas that thin in the summer get smaller every year.

 

[JeffinNE]

I seeded the front 1 1/4 acres (part with the house and lawn) of my acreage almost 5 years ago with the XRE Defiance. Not a bad grass. I've since seeded a couple small areas and overseeded a little with "RTF Water Saver" fescue--an outstanding product.

Both do a OK job of spreading with rhizomes. The RTF is a much nicer appearing grass--almost like a bluegrass. Given the chance to do it all again I would choose only that type. I've found smaller bags in local Ace Hardware stores but here's a link to a seed/sod farm where you can order it.

RTF Turf Saver Seed

 

[EE_Bota]

I am not sure what evidence folks would except besides planting it on you own property, and seeing excellent results. But if you look at this page, and also research all the varieties in TLC, you should be able to find all the evidence you need short of seeing it perform well on your own property.

Prove It!

I planted it last fall, so I can't vouch for it. I am waiting on that critical evidence I did do research on each of the varieties contained within, and was impressed with the mix. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[wupham]

Our turf guys at Kansas State University did a study on RTF (rhizomatous tall fescues) in the last few years and found they did not spread any better than "normal" tall fescues. What is funny is that they did spread better in greenhouse studies. You learn over the years to never trust any result found in the greenhouse until it is confirmed in the field. Following is a short write-up of the results.

Our turfgrass research team has tested these grasses to see how well they would do under Kansas conditions. Tall fescues evaluated were Grande II, Regiment II, Barlexus, Water Saver RTF tall fescue blend (39.84 Labarinth; 29.93 Barlexus II; 29.86 Barrington), and Kentucky-31. SR2284 Kentucky bluegrass was also included. Grande II, Regiment II, and the Water Saver RTF blend (particularly the Labarinth cultivar in the blend) are purported to be more prolific rhizome producers. The Barlexus and K-31 are non-RTF types that provided a check to evaluate how much more quickly the RTF types can spread. Kentucky bluegrass was included because it produces long rhizomes and made a good comparison to the spreading ability of these new tall fescue varieties. So, in summary, we had Kentucky bluegrass, which spreads quickly, non-RTF tall fescues, which should spread very slowly, and RTF tall fescues, which were purported to be intermediate in spreading ability.

Our study was established in 2006 and was composed of two parts. In one part, we placed 4-inch diameter plugs of each turfgrass variety in bare ground and then measured how many rhizomes were produced. We also measured the diameter of the clump as it spread. In the second part, we removed all the turf in a 12" diameter circle in the middle of established plots of each variety. We then measured how much the size of the bare area decreased over time.

In short we found that Kentucky bluegrass produced more rhizomes and covered the bare areas more quickly than any tall fescue variety. Also, no tall fescue variety produced more rhizomes or spread more quickly than any other. Therefore, we cannot recommend RTF varieties over non-RTF varieties due to their spreading potential.

 

[EE_Bota]

Three of the five grasses in TLC were rated Excellent by NCSU in their turf trials. But, only the most highly touted grass in the TLC bag, Titan Ltd. made the excellent list by Kansas.

Perhaps what matters most is what works in your state. VA Tech studies listed three of the five varieties in TLC as excellent in VA. Two of the varieties were not tested, as best I can tell.

I am not an expert. But I try to listen to local studies because some grasses do better here than there.

The Kansas study listed Titan in the list that was considered much better than K-31. Your turf may vary. Kansas recommended K-31 for large areas such as fields, but said there are many varieties that are much better for yards.

I cannot vouch for the spreading ability of grasses. Even the pictures on the site that were supposed the show the spreading looked slight to me.

 

[mailladysandy]

I have seen a couple of grass seed companies sell new varieties of tall fescue with rhizomes that faciliate the spreading so the grass does not just grow in clumps. Gimmick or legit?

T.L.C. Tall Fescue Blend Featuring Titan Limited Tall Fescue with self-repairing rhizomes

Defiance XRE Tall Fescue Grass|Turf Type Tall Fescue Grass Seed|Fescue.com


Anyone have an experience with any of these? Some seem to suggest that they do not work as well as advertised

The very best and only tall fescue rhysome seed, in my opinion, is titan. Go to their website, plug in your zip code and they will give you dealers in your area. Usually the places you find and the mom & pop feed and seed/hardware stores. Try titan, you will not be disappointed!

 

[muddstopper]

Gosh 4year old thread, I would guess the Op has already planted his grass. But I am bored and feel like expressing my 2cents worth.
I Used to own a hydroseeding company, at one time I had 4 trucks and 4 crews doing everything from state and county jobs to developer and residential lawn installs. I bought grass seed by the ton and sometimes by the truckload. I spent a lot of time researching different grass types and even did my own field trials with side by side test plots. Just for information, all tall fescues are rhyzome produceing, some just produce more rhyzomes than others and some types bunch more than others. Even K31 will produce rhyzomes under the right conditions. Seed producers are selecting varities and cross breeding some of the more promanate rhyzome varities in and attempt to produce a fescue that will more quickly spread and fill in bare or damaged spots all the time. I have planted some the advertised rhyzome producing grass in my test plots side by side other non rhyzome fescues and was never able to tell any real differences in the number or size of rhyzomes produced. Give K31 the proper fertility, moisture, and proper mowing height and it will produce rhyzomes and spread just as well as similary cared for ryzome produceing varities. The number one reason most of your fescues clump and dont spread is simply because they are mowed way to short. No tops, no roots. Reason fescues dont resist drought conditions very well, mowed to short, no tops no roots. Main reason most lawns have more weeds than grass, again mowed to short. Fact, the reason most lawns need reseeding on a regular basis, is because their owners kill the grass by mowing to short. lawn diseases in fescue, ask yourself how many folks you see fertilizing their lawns in July and August. Sure you can get by fertilizing warm season grasses in the summer, but cool season fescues are dormant.. Fungus loves Nitrogen, warm season weeds love nitrogen, but your fescue lawns are dormant and cant use the nitrogen, guess what wins out. OK, I'm done, below is some real information

Best source for information concerning what type of grass to plant where you live, National Turfgrass Evaluation Program - WELCOME. These folks test all kinds of grasses in lots of diffeent areas of the country. Just pick out an evaluation site close to where you live and see what they say is the best grass seed for your area.

 

[tiger275]

The number one reason most of your fescues clump and dont spread is simply because they are mowed way to short. No tops, no roots. Reason fescues dont resist drought conditions very well, mowed to short, no tops no roots. Main reason most lawns have more weeds than grass, again mowed to short. Fact, the reason most lawns need reseeding on a regular basis, is because their owners kill the grass by mowing to short..

So given your strong (and likely fact based) point of view on this, can you comment on what the proper height for mowing fescue grasses should be to avoid the problems you hilight above?

Ed

 

[muddstopper]

I always preferred to mow my fescue lawn at 4inches, while most experts will tell you to never mow fescue less than 3 1/2inches. On my old computer, I have 100's of links to provide specific information. If you can find the old HTPA website, (it may not exsist anymore), I provided most of the links in their link library, and I am sure some of those links are probably no longer active.

Without going back and reviewing some of the information stored on my old computer, I can remember one specific site referenceing cutting height of fescue. cutting fescue less than 2 inches, means you are cutting into the crown of the plant and removing most of food produceing grass blades. Without enought grass blades the plant cant perform photosynthesis to feed the plant. The end result is insufficient root area to provide proper mineral and moisture uptake to substane the plant. This is the main reason you see brown spots during drought conditions. Short grass also exposes more of the soil to sunlite and speeds up the evaporation of ground moisture, making a bad situation even worse. tall grass shades the soil and slows evaporation of soil moisture, provides more leaf area for food production and a overall healther lawn. taller fesuce also means more shade onwedd type plants, helping to slow and provent weed growth. All that without the need for added fertilizer to promote a green flush looking lawn. I like the taller cut simply because I think it looks better when properly mowed. And no it doesnt take any longer to maintain a 4in cutting height than it does a 2 inch cutting height, contrary to some popular opinions. A taller lawn is also easier to walk on barefoot, which I do often enough to warrant having an opinion on that subject.

 

[s219]

I always preferred to mow my fescue lawn at 4inches, while most experts will tell you to never mow fescue less than 3 1/2inches. On my old computer, I have 100's of links to provide specific information. If you can find the old HTPA website, (it may not exsist anymore), I provided most of the links in their link library, and I am sure some of those links are probably no longer active.

Without going back and reviewing some of the information stored on my old computer, I can remember one specific site referenceing cutting height of fescue. cutting fescue less than 2 inches, means you are cutting into the crown of the plant and removing most of food produceing grass blades. Without enought grass blades the plant cant perform photosynthesis to feed the plant. The end result is insufficient root area to provide proper mineral and moisture uptake to substane the plant. This is the main reason you see brown spots during drought conditions. Short grass also exposes more of the soil to sunlite and speeds up the evaporation of ground moisture, making a bad situation even worse. tall grass shades the soil and slows evaporation of soil moisture, provides more leaf area for food production and a overall healther lawn. taller fesuce also means more shade onwedd type plants, helping to slow and provent weed growth. All that without the need for added fertilizer to promote a green flush looking lawn. I like the taller cut simply because I think it looks better when properly mowed. And no it doesnt take any longer to maintain a 4in cutting height than it does a 2 inch cutting height, contrary to some popular opinions. A taller lawn is also easier to walk on barefoot, which I do often enough to warrant having an opinion on that subject.

I prefer mowing fescue high, but there will be a balance in humid areas were fungus can be a problem, and going a little lower makes a big difference. I had been mowing the fescue at my previous house right around 3 inches with decent results. Fescue is not real well adapted to hot conditions or humid conditions, so it can be a battle sometimes.

 

[tiger275]

I always preferred to mow my fescue lawn at 4inches, while most experts will tell you to never mow fescue less than 3 1/2inches. .

Thanks for the reply and detailed explanation. When someone talks about mowing grass to 4 inches, how is that measured? From the surface of the dirt or by setting your mower deck to 4" (which in theory should be the same)? This seems like an extremely long grass height. Seems like when you would walk on it, you would "sink" to the point where your feet were entirely embedded into the grass. As opposed to a 2-3" cut where I could see you sinking in a little but not being engulfed. If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that the standing grass height of around 3.5 to 4" is ideal after the cut and that you would likely be cutting 1-1.5 inches off after a week or 2 of growth. Again, not doubting...it just seems long compared to what I am used to.

To further explain....I recently moved from the heart of Texas where the grass choices were very different then they are in eastern TN where I now live. We had bermuda and St. augustine and always kept both cut pretty short. So, I am not doubting you...just trying to get smarter before I embark on my lawn restoration project. I have a mix of about 80% weeds and 20% fescue (mixed types) so I am trying to experiment with the junk I was dealt until I refresh the yard.

Thanks again,
Ed

 

[tiger275]

Oops replied in wrong post