Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[MossRoad]

And they are cutting back now without the additional capacity anyway. Because they know that we need it, we shut off our own spigots, and they can pick our pockets. Unlike when we were expanding domestic production just a few short years ago to where we became a net EXPORTER.

And we haven’t even gotten to the looting of the SPR…

Our own spigots? That's funny.

The US does not produce any oil. It sells leases to private companies that sell it on the open market for profit. The US has not and never will be energy independent. Unless you are proposing a government takeover of the oil industry.

Here's a map of the world's largest state-owned oil companies. See the US there on the map. The US doesn't own any oil companies.

(click to enlarge)

 

[walhondingMF]

But the Pwers-That-Be want to eliminate it, regardless (or possibly even because they want) the repercussions.

take a step back for a sec… You want options. I want options. The Green Matia wants to take away options. They screwed over Germany by getting them to shut down their nuke plants because of Fukushima — even though Germany is not threatened by tsunamis! But is was a convenient excuse.

youncannot get to your solar and wind utopia without hydrocarbons. You cannot refine the structural materials without hydrocarbons. We do not have the ink capacity to fun electric foundries and keep everyone’s fridge running.

And you cannot bring in any manufacturing if you do not have the power to run it. I don’t care if it is solar manufacturing, greeting card manufacturing, kewpie doll manufacturing - and the energy and resources put into manufacturing “green energy” never will go into a net positive gain. Nuke is the way, but it is politically unsavory. Hydrocarbons have the energy density, portability, and convenience (you cannot bring a 5 gallon jug of windmill to your EV when it runs out…).

Doesnsolar have a place? Yes.
Does wind have a place? Yes.

(I have a vintage Winco windmill generator tucked away for SHTF)

but the push to eliminate hydrocarbon energy BEFORE sufficient alternative energy capacity is reached (sufficient meaning replace and Provide for GROWTH) is self-destructive. Especially when it replaces farmland.

Great points, we are not far apart. However, you are telling me that the powers that be want to eliminate hydrocabons. Yes they do, eventually. We all do. They are a limited resources (why there is very little coal mining in my region now) and fusion will eventually replace everything (hopefully). Just because a few people who are part of a political party say something does not mean that 1. everyone believes that and 2. that the policy will reflect that. NG has been pushed strongly by the current administration, as well as the 2 previous administrations. Some action towards green energies doesn't mean only action towards green energies. It's just not coal anymore and EVs have been added to the list.
Let's look at the auto industry for example. Oil companies don't like EVs. Well they should also hate the ecoboost, ecodiesel and the cylinder shut off engine in my chevy. Those options are still hydrocarbon based and use less gas (oil). Consumers wanted better gas mileage options, government encouraged this through gas mileage marks for manufactures, which they have meet. The average american wanted something, the government helped it along and here we are. Some "greenies" want everyone to walk. That doesn't mean it will happen. But a trend towards what the majority of Americans wanted is what happened, with help.

 

[walhondingMF]

I wonder how many solar panels would be needed to run, say, the Lodge Cookware foundry… and how many storage batteries would be needed, not just for regular production but to cover periods of bad weather . . . Over how much acreage…

Then don't use it there. Use NG. But there are many factories, especially out west, that use exclusively alternatives. Love them or hate them, but how do you think Musk powers his factories?

 

[WM75Guy]

I live in it also. I teach these peoples's kids. My son is friends with their son's. The pipelines were not built by locals. They were all from Texas. And they are gone now. A lot of the drilling is employing locals, not long term. They will have all the holes drilled soon, and then what? The NG power plant employed 500 construction workers. The local labor unions had to fight to make those jobs local and not bring in outside, temporary labor. It will only retain 25 long term jobs. My nephew works for a rig clean up company. He knows all the holes will be drilled soon. That's why he started a residential concrete construction company because people want sidewalks and patios from the money they get for leasing their land. NG has no long term employment options. Where do you propose these long term employment jobs come from?

Yep, we have lots of pipeline welders. At least when they all came back home the price for welding work went down.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

So, how do you run an EV tractor for 24hrs for two weeks when harvest hast to come in? I know that drivers hot-swap in motion, refueling can be done in motion, but how can you do that with EV? And what are you charging them with?

The only way this will be feasable is to recharge the harvesting equipment in motion by having a diesel generator running. Or the farmers will have to buy extra $$$$$ expensive batteries and take the time to swap out them out, which will increase the time it takes to harvest the crop.
Option #2, is to have an extra Combine (harvester) on hand, just doesn't make economic sense.
EV farm equipment at this stage of technology is just virtue signalling, in my opinion.

 

[walhondingMF]

The only way this will be feasable is to recharge the harvesting equipment in motion by having a diesel generator running. Or the farmers will have to buy extra $$$$$ expensive batteries and take the time to swap out them out, which will increase the time it takes to harvest the crop.
Option #2, is to have an extra Combine (harvester) on hand, just doesn't make economic sense.
EV farm equipment at this stage of technology is just virtue signalling, in my opinion.

Completely agree. Some day, maybe, if there is a market for it. But you know what they could realistically move towards? Natural Gas/Propane tractors. There are semi's on the highways using it. The only thing holding back more of it is enough filling locations. I have to assume if the market pushes it enough, and the government, there will and should be more NG filling stations. It's cheaper than gas/diesel (oil) and the global market benefits us more.

 

[bvanek]

None of it would have done anything for the average person in the US.

This has data that clearly refutes this.....now I could ask you; hows the weather? and you could sit in your cubical and tell me it's sunny and yet the people standing outside in the rain have a different opinion.......

 

[Hay Dude]

Completely agree. Some day, maybe, if there is a market for it. But you know what they could realistically move towards? Natural Gas/Propane tractors. There are semi's on the highways using it. The only thing holding back more of it is enough filling locations. I have to assume if the market pushes it enough, and the government, there will and should be more NG filling stations. It's cheaper than gas/diesel (oil) and the global market benefits us more.

But the G________t picks winners and losers. The G________t decided that EV charging stations are what they want to spend taxpayer dollars helping get built, not NG filling stations. Again, they pick winners & losers and it ALWAYS fails.

Starting to understand now?

 

[Hay Dude]

Let's build stuff that accomplishes nothing to provide temporary jobs. Splendid.

At best, it was projected to provide a few thousand temporary jobs, and around 30-40 permanent jobs. The bang for the buck wasn't there. Nor was any relief at the pump for US citizens.

I saw 6,000 jobs and you darn well know that pipeline could have attracted oil refining at a terminal.
We will never know now, because those jobs and opportunities are forever lost.

 

[WM75Guy]

Unfortunately, CNG is still not a viable alternative for vehicles. If you buy a CNG vehicle make sure it is dual fuel capable. When I worked for one city in the NE suburbs of Fort Worth, my brother was in charge of fleet services the next city over. Cities were mandated to have a certain percentage of their fleet purchases with alternative fuel. This was before electric vehicles. He bought 1 CNG Chevrolet pickup that was not dual fuel to test them out. It was only used to take water samples to the lab in Dallas as it had a range of 100 miles on a tank of CNG. There was 1 fill station in NE Fort Worth. The pickup would leave the shop, go 10 miles to fill up, go to the lab, and return to the shop. Normally they would have enough fuel the next day to make it to the fill station. Occasionally the truck would get stuck in Dallas traffic, run out of fuel, and have to be towed to the fill station.

There are currently 2 CNG fill locations in Fort Worth.