Filling in a back yard pool.

[Reg]

I think this is the right place for this,.
Apology to the mod if it is not, please move it if you deem fit.

My son is working for a "Landscaper".
A lose term for a guy who will take on just about anything.
They have a BobCat (small Gehl, to be precise) and I move it around with my truck/trailer for them sometimes.

Yesterday it was a back yard pool fill project and about an hour into it I got called to please bring my tractor to pull the Gehl out - - Huhh ?
Another guy had been going along close to an edge when the concrete apron had caved under the weight of the machine.
Fortunately there was some dirt already in that area and the broken concrete slid across as a slab. Nobody was hurt.

I speculate that;
In ground pools are only lightly back-filled before water is put in.
After the water is put in there might be some more fill, but I doubt that it is ever rollered and PACKED.
If a decorative concrete apron is then poured it is quite possible that (over the course of several years) the fill will settle and voids will develop, i.e. the concrete apron will not be supported and if relatively thin will NOT be able to support a vehicle such as a tractor or BobCat.
As a decorative "apron" this one appeared to be only a couple of inches thick where it broke.
I would guess the construction would be the same as for a path/walkway.
-----------end of speculation-------------
I was able to get on supported concrete and tugged it out easily enough with 3/8 CHAIN - - to the drawbar.

I would like feedback on this, specifically whether my speculation on how back-filling is done around in ground pools is close to reality.
Also whether my assumption that fill settles even if sheltered from rain by the concrete apron.

Thoughts ?
{other than don't let my son do such projects}

 

[Rara Avis]

Well, when I filled in my pool there was nothing but dirt under the concrete apron...no gravel or stone...

The backfill was a different issue, because it was a banked pool on two sides...

 

[Red55]

There was a post that showed a TBL going over because the concrete gave way. . . Now if I could only remember the post. Most inground pools that I've seen have been backfill and I see quite a few put in just before the winter so the fill can settle in before the concrete apron/slab was poured in spring. Also remember that with deconstruction you have changed the dynamnics of the site. I just fill in my pool and I jackhammered (all day) about 5 yds of concrete that I tossed into the hole before I started backfilling. -ED

 

[Reg]

There was a post that showed a TBL going over because the concrete gave way. . . Now if I could only remember the post. Most inground pools that I've seen have been backfill and I see quite a few put in just before the winter so the fill can settle in before the concrete apron/slab was poured in spring. Also remember that with deconstruction you have changed the dynamnics of the site. I just fill in my pool and I jackhammered (all day) about 5 yds of concrete that I tossed into the hole before I started backfilling. -ED

Thanks,
I think that is probably what SHOULD have been done, but this is pretty much a hack job.
An opportunity to bury junk, no attention to packing it down every so many inches of lift, just get tailings hauled in and shove 'em over the side, then get it more or less level, get paid and get out.

Hind sight, I know, but if the shallow end had been filled first with the broken up apron they would have had something to drive on to actually CARRY the fill to the deep end... and build it up to level with constant driving over it.

Right now the tailings are wet and it is like driving around in clay soup.
I might take the tractor down there in a couple of days if things dry out and they don't get too impatient and "finish" it.

tnx,

\R

 

[Charlesaf3]

out of curiousity, why are the pools you guys discuss being filled in?

 

[Rara Avis]

I filled mine in, because in VT you have a very SHORT season, unless you want to invest in the POWER Companies for a pool heater...

 

[Reg]

out of curiousity, why are the pools you guys discuss being filled in?

It is my understanding that the home owner's kids are "all grown and gone".
Change of lifestyle, loss of interest, etc.
There is obvious evidence of neglect, probably over several years.
There are 4 (casual count, might be more) beer kegs in the yard, presumably empty.
THAT pool is a liability to THAT homeowner, in upkeep and risk exposure.

So, from some angles filling it in makes some amount of sense.

 

[Charlesaf3]

ah thanks.

I've thought of putting one in, so its really useful to hear about why people take them out. No need to go to that trouble and expense if I'll just fill it in later.

 

[Treemonkey1000]

The sad fact also is there is a huge liability issue that goes with them. Pretty much you have to have them fenced in around here to help protect yourself from being taken to court if someone gets hurt. Even if they were trespassing.

 

[TomOfTarsus]

<Tangent>

Yeah, I live near Pittsburgh and had a few pools while the kids were growing up. Stupid...

Too short of a season, constant messing around with chemicals and cleaning, expense of running a filter, all that malarkey, and the legal risks.

I have a membership at the local YMCA now. Heated indoor pool, 12' deep end, springboards, we can go all year around, no messing with chemicals or cleaning, lifeguards always present, no legal liablilties, shower on their dime & all at once (with 5 kids that's a big plus) - and there's a lot more to do at the "Y" than just swim... hindsight...

</Tangent>

 

[Ridgewalker]

I had a pool put in about 5 years ago...biggest mistake I have ever made.
I will agree with the OPs comments about lack of back fill, I watched them work mine in and I am positive it has voids under the slab next to the pool in spots.

 

[Cidertom]

Kind of related subject:
I was on an engine company defending a house against a wildfire a few years back.. We used the owners pool as a water source. It appears that the water table in that area is close to the surface. Soon after we emptied the pool it started out of the ground. Rose up about a foot.

Insurace Co paid and didn't whine (something about cost of pool vs 450K house).

So when taking a pool out of service be careful about ground water table.

 

[Red55]

Kind of related subject:
I was on an engine company defending a house against a wildfire a few years back.. We used the owners pool as a water source. It appears that the water table in that area is close to the surface. Soon after we emptied the pool it started out of the ground. Rose up about a foot.

Insurace Co paid and didn't whine (something about cost of pool vs 450K house).

So when taking a pool out of service be careful about ground water table.

That was one of the justifications for me to keep the pool a couple of more years 20,000 + water available. Got rid of mine cause of expense Too much time maintaining it and too little use. Now if I had some of my neighbors money I would have constructed it closer to the house and then enclosed it but I would then have the priviledge of sending the local taxing authority the price of a new car every year in additional taxes. Once the tax assessor sees a pool they KNOW you have money (or it sure seems that way ) -Ed

 

[Reg]

Progress, sort of.
The BobCat has been pulled out two more times, to my knowledge.
Both times in very wet deep soupy stuff, that to me looks/feels like clay.
I was down there yesterday with the tractor following a couple of dry days.

For THIS kind of work with THOSE drivers it seems the BobCat is less than ideal.
With a tractor I have much wider tires and especially at the back have weight and width - loaded 24 x 17.5 with about 50 gallons of Rimguard in each.
With a full bucket I can pack down stuff I have already laid as I go forwards to the next dump point.
If I start to sink I can dump it, push it around and still have the big rear wheels on the area that is even more packed to get me out.
Well, I think that is what/how I was doing things, at least I got some seat time out of it.

(-:

 

[bucmeister]

I would agree that a 4x4 tractor with loader would do better.

Was told years ago, before we put in our pool, that a pool costs big bucks three times, installation $$, maintenance $$, and finally filling it in $$. That assessment made sense which is why we opted for a 30' above ground. Sure it had no deep end and was not ground level, but was way less costly to put in and will cost very little to take down in a couple of years when the interest is fully gone.

 

[ICGREEN]

We put in a pool about 4 years ago. Power cover with keyed switch so no fence. While it's more my wifes pool than mine I will admit I do enjoy an evening swim. We put it in because we wanted our grown kids and grand kids around. It really does draw them in. Beats the public pool. They are 1. expensive to put in 2. expensive and time comsuming to maintain and 3. alot of fun if you enjoy friends and family around. For just my wife and I it would be a waste. Might fill it in in 20 years or so when I'm to old to enjoy and maintain it but for now it's well worth the time and money. We have a heater which we use to boost a little in the spring and fall but for the most part the automatic cover gets enough solar that we probably don't spend more that $3-400 for a whole season of heating. The key is to spend the money upfront so you don't end up spending it on the back end. In retrospect we would have probably gotten the self cleaning option installed.