filling in waterway with gravel ? Help

Highbeam · May 27, 2006

The steep slope part bother me too. A trench that needs to be that deep on a slope is capable of very high flows. Putting those very high flows into a small pipe will create a firehose effect.

Another option is widening the ditch so that it may be crossed easily with the tractor. It's not a mushy gushy creek bottom, so with a little care to grading the crossing could be made pasable by a tractor and still allow the flash flows to go through without ponding.

You can bury a large pipe halfway so that the water flows through the middle of the pipe. A flat stream bottom effect, supposedly the fish like that better than several small pipes.

Highbeam · May 27, 2006

The steep slope part bother me too. A trench that needs to be that deep on a slope is capable of very high flows. Putting those very high flows into a small pipe will create a firehose effect.

Another option is widening the ditch so that it may be crossed easily with the tractor. It's not a mushy gushy creek bottom, so with a little care to grading the crossing could be made pasable by a tractor and still allow the flash flows to go through without ponding.

You can bury a large pipe halfway so that the water flows through the middle of the pipe. A flat stream bottom effect, supposedly the fish like that better than several small pipes.

KentT · May 27, 2006

Yes, I read his original message. IMO, he needs to either dig down to install the culvert, or put it in a location he can build up a place to go over it...

Having tried to clean out 12" corrugated metal culverts in the past, when it was time to put a culvert underneath the new driveway at my retirement homesite, I went with the 18" plastic and built up over it...

Not everyone has access to the equipment you mention to clean out culverts -- especially out in the middle of the woods...

KentT · May 27, 2006

Yes, I read his original message. IMO, he needs to either dig down to install the culvert, or put it in a location he can build up a place to go over it...

Having tried to clean out 12" corrugated metal culverts in the past, when it was time to put a culvert underneath the new driveway at my retirement homesite, I went with the 18" plastic and built up over it...

Not everyone has access to the equipment you mention to clean out culverts -- especially out in the middle of the woods...

Soundguy · May 28, 2006

( he needs to either dig down to install the culvert )

Not always an ideal situation. If you have the exit of the culver underneath the grade of the rest of the trough, you will start eroding that area of the trough... Besides.. if you have a large dip in the middle of the flow.. you will eventually have a swimmin pool... it will probably start holding water and collect sediment at the lowest point. The sediment collection will also be bad at the pipe exit where there is a grade change due to restriction.

Out of all the culvert ideas here, I like the small pipes the best, obviously, and the half burried large ID pipe.. if you can get sufficient materil over the top of it for load bearing issues.

As for the small pipes.. i can't tell you how manu municipal WRA havedrainage eareas that use 3" and 4" pipe in some areas before hitting storm drains...

( Having tried to clean out 12" corrugated metal culverts .......Not everyone has access to the equipment you mention to clean out culverts -- especially out in the middle of the woods... )

Before we had that machine, we used the '15' shovel' All the local contractors in our area had a long shovel. It was nothing more than a shovel head welded to a long pipe. I personally cleaned ( helped clean) man culverts like that when i started working. It wasn't a savory job.. but for young laborors in college.. it paid for the books and tuition...

A small timber bridge is sounding better and better.

As for fish.. I believe he was going to gravel it over completely.. so i doubt there is a concern for fish.

Now I remember why I said i was never going to give engineering advice over this site again... reminds me of an old thread.

Ok.. scratch all my previous message in this post.. my new advice is to contact a civil engineer that is licensed in your local area, have them inspect and survey the site, and design a drainage structure that will be load bearing.. ( box culvert is the ticket.. reinforced concrete.. ) get the structure specially precast and delivered, and either install it yourself, or get a contractor to drop it in. In most cases you will need a NPDES permit, and also a permit from your local water management district, plus a building permit. I figre about 20 grand ought to cover it.

That's the end of my advice..

Soundguy

Soundguy

Soundguy · May 28, 2006

( he needs to either dig down to install the culvert )

Not always an ideal situation. If you have the exit of the culver underneath the grade of the rest of the trough, you will start eroding that area of the trough... Besides.. if you have a large dip in the middle of the flow.. you will eventually have a swimmin pool... it will probably start holding water and collect sediment at the lowest point. The sediment collection will also be bad at the pipe exit where there is a grade change due to restriction.

Out of all the culvert ideas here, I like the small pipes the best, obviously, and the half burried large ID pipe.. if you can get sufficient materil over the top of it for load bearing issues.

As for the small pipes.. i can't tell you how manu municipal WRA havedrainage eareas that use 3" and 4" pipe in some areas before hitting storm drains...

( Having tried to clean out 12" corrugated metal culverts .......Not everyone has access to the equipment you mention to clean out culverts -- especially out in the middle of the woods... )

Before we had that machine, we used the '15' shovel' All the local contractors in our area had a long shovel. It was nothing more than a shovel head welded to a long pipe. I personally cleaned ( helped clean) man culverts like that when i started working. It wasn't a savory job.. but for young laborors in college.. it paid for the books and tuition...

A small timber bridge is sounding better and better.

As for fish.. I believe he was going to gravel it over completely.. so i doubt there is a concern for fish.

Now I remember why I said i was never going to give engineering advice over this site again... reminds me of an old thread.

Ok.. scratch all my previous message in this post.. my new advice is to contact a civil engineer that is licensed in your local area, have them inspect and survey the site, and design a drainage structure that will be load bearing.. ( box culvert is the ticket.. reinforced concrete.. ) get the structure specially precast and delivered, and either install it yourself, or get a contractor to drop it in. In most cases you will need a NPDES permit, and also a permit from your local water management district, plus a building permit. I figre about 20 grand ought to cover it.

That's the end of my advice..

Soundguy

Soundguy

Jagmandave · May 29, 2006

I like the idea of a small bridge, then you don't have to even mess with the ditch..............

Jagmandave · May 29, 2006

I like the idea of a small bridge, then you don't have to even mess with the ditch..............

rambler · May 30, 2006

You really need to find out the flow of the water in this thing. Some small-looking streams can get pretty big only a time or 2 per year.

But, if you mess that up, expect a lawsuit from your neighbor. It's pretty rough to move into a neighborhood & mess up the water flow for others. Does _not_ make for good feelings. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kinda have some bad issues with that sort of thing here in farm country - newcomers from town don't quite grasp just how much land they can affect with a 'little' water diversion......

The gravel idea was really, really bad one. Glad you are looking at a culvert or bridge.

The size needed is unknown by us. Perhaps talking to your neighbor, or others who have been around for a decade or more, could advise you on the amount of water flow that stream gets at times.

You won't really know on your own experience for another 3-4 years, most likely. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Is there some reason this area needs to be grassed over, if all you are going to do is mow it - might want to let it just function as it has for the past years, do it's thing.

--->Paul

rambler · May 30, 2006

You really need to find out the flow of the water in this thing. Some small-looking streams can get pretty big only a time or 2 per year.

But, if you mess that up, expect a lawsuit from your neighbor. It's pretty rough to move into a neighborhood & mess up the water flow for others. Does _not_ make for good feelings. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kinda have some bad issues with that sort of thing here in farm country - newcomers from town don't quite grasp just how much land they can affect with a 'little' water diversion......

The gravel idea was really, really bad one. Glad you are looking at a culvert or bridge.

The size needed is unknown by us. Perhaps talking to your neighbor, or others who have been around for a decade or more, could advise you on the amount of water flow that stream gets at times.

You won't really know on your own experience for another 3-4 years, most likely. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Is there some reason this area needs to be grassed over, if all you are going to do is mow it - might want to let it just function as it has for the past years, do it's thing.

--->Paul