Finding septic tanks

SnoFalls · Mar 9, 2006

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1* Why not- What do you mean??

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The design will simply never get approved. You simply cannot dump effluent into surface water.

"WAC 246-272-11501(2)(a) prohibits direct discharge of effluent from a PTP to surface water or upon the ground surface. Subsurface dispersal is required."

PTP here refers to Proprietary Treatment Products and they can be subcategorized as either aerobic treatment units, packed bed filters, or upflow media
filters

The only real difference in the effluent produced in an "aretor" vs "septic" is the amount of nitrification that has taken place.
The septic system drain field will do the final nitrification in the process, where as the aerator system has completed most of the nitirfication in the tank.

The drain field is there to allow the final nitrates to be ultimately dispersed into the soil. Studies have shown that the drainfields do not contribute to groundwater or surfacewater nitrate contamination due to chemical and biological processes that either trap or transform the nitrates. (Most nitrate conamination is attributed to use of high quantities of fertilizer based phospahtes being nitrified via surface runoff).

Consumption of nitrates can cause methemoglobinemia (blue baby syndrome) in infants, which reduces the ability of the blood to carry oxygen. If left untreated, methemoglobinemia can be fatal for affected infants. It is also quite deadly to fish.

I'm actually quite surprised that a system was approved *without* a drain field ... Perhaps at the time of installation it was approved, but I doubt a new system could be installed that way ...

Wood_Butcher_Dav · Mar 9, 2006

Your not counting the fact that a single tank is cheaper and that money is put into the leach field. My buddy has a quote that includes 500 gallon tank (unsure of exact size) and materials along with backhoe work for under 5K. He will have to finish grade the field. This is on new construction and his lot size is over 10 acres. I'm not talking of adding a leach field to an aerator system. Mine has a 100 foot french drain that empties to road ditch. The two inch pipe connects to a 4 inch preforated pipe buried about a foot in a gravel bed. This was approved by county inspector and was/is common practice around here.

Dave

JimR · Mar 9, 2006

That is sh-t cheap. In Ma. that system due to Title 5 Regs would run you $20-25K due to the legal crap and hiring of professionals to tell you how to dump your crap. I also need to mention that this new system done by qualified engineers is not gauranteed to work. You really have to love the laws and how they affect you.

SnoFalls · Mar 9, 2006

( Mine has a 100 foot french drain that empties to road ditch. The two inch pipe connects to a 4 inch preforated pipe buried about a foot in a gravel bed. This was approved by county inspector and was/is common practice around here.

Dave )

That _might_ be approved as "subsurface dispersal" around here too (I'm guessing the 4" pipe is capped?). The effluent disperses into the gravel of the french drain, and then either perks into the ground or is carried with runoff to the drainage ditch.

Probably depends on the bureaucrat involved as to whether that is "subsurface dispersal" or simply dispersing into "surface runoff" here ...

Wood_Butcher_Dav · Mar 9, 2006

No the end is not capped. I was told by more then one person that the discharge could be above ground as long as there was no standing water. I'm not sure what Regs there are from state or federal in my case. I'm outside of any city or town limits which may have other requlations.

Dave

Highbeam · Mar 9, 2006

I am not surprized one bit that the regulations in WA are more stringent and wussy than those in the midwest or in other largely rural states. So many of these local rules are affected by politics.

We can't dump effluent on the ground. In some states, apparently you can. Even if I could dump it on the ground, I think I would install some sort of gravel trench so I wouldn't have to look at it or possibly smell it. Imagine in the summer everything is brown except for a discharge of nutrient rich liquid from your system. Dogs going over there to lap it up, kids making mud balls, etc.

SnoFalls · Mar 9, 2006

( I am not surprized one bit that the regulations in WA are more stringent and wussy than those in the midwest or in other largely rural states. So many of these local rules are affected by politics.

We can't dump effluent on the ground. In some states, apparently you can. Even if I could dump it on the ground, I think I would install some sort of gravel trench so I wouldn't have to look at it or possibly smell it. Imagine in the summer everything is brown except for a discharge of nutrient rich liquid from your system. Dogs going over there to lap it up, kids making mud balls, etc. )

I agree, but I think that LBrown59 saying his way is the "best" is (excuse the pun) a tankful of sewage.

I'm lucky to have excellent perk values. I have 2 septics with relatively small drain fields on each. Neither gets "overloaded", and the only problems I've incurred is tree roots on an infeed (stupid PO's wouldn't cut one tree in the middle of the forest), and the stump removal (again, stupid PO's wouldn't cut another tree in the middle of the forest).

I also understand that Wood_Butcher_Dav got very similar prices for a septic vs. aerator. That 100' "french" drain mighta been a 100' septic drainfield had they go down another foot or two.

It all involves the site, the perk, and the space. If you perk bad, you might need LOTSA space for a septic drainfield, and less for an aerator. The less excavation, the less cost so the upfront cost of the aerator can pan out.

The days of raw effluent to the surface tho are over folks ... I think federal reqs in 2000 are mandated to be put into effect at some point (and wussy WA state is already there). And in things like this, "grandfathered" in is only good till the property is sold.

Jagmandave · Mar 10, 2006

My area requires a mound system, which is an aerator system with pump to a leach field and some sort of "special" sand over (under?) the mound, that costs about $15k of the $20 - 25K total cost......

Highbeam · Mar 10, 2006

Not all mounds include an aerator. All the mounds I have dealt with in my area come after a septic tank and are there only to provide secondary treatment before hitting the earth. They do require pumps to move effluent between the septic and the mound though. We usually see them where the groundwater is high so a standard leechfield would be saturated.

tlbuser · Mar 13, 2006

Locally, they are being used more now for any lot that won't perk (no aeration systems approved yet). The construction of a mound system is so high because of the extra engineering, tank, pumps, floats, alarms and associated wiring plus the number of man-hours involved. We are not allowed to disturb the "mound construction site" with any type of tracked or wheeled equipment. Unless you have access with an excavator (reach), everything must be moved by wheelbarrows, rakes and shovels. Trees in the zone get flush-cut, stumps stay. The last one we built we also installed galvanized "rat wire" to try and keep the moles from tunneling into the mound and rupturing the sidewalls.