heehaw
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"finish screws?" thats a new one to me: where do you get such a thing?
heehaw
heehaw
Finish nailer Choice
- Thread starter sunspot
- Start date
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I have had a Bostich 15 ga. angled finish nailer for 20 years. It has never given me any trouble. An angled nailer get in to tight areas, and nails on angles better.
I would avoid using staples on flooring. Actually, I don't like them very much on most things. They don't put up much resistance to forces that pull on them.
Trim screws are ok, in situations where there are no other options. They can be a pain to work with.
I would avoid using staples on flooring. Actually, I don't like them very much on most things. They don't put up much resistance to forces that pull on them.
Trim screws are ok, in situations where there are no other options. They can be a pain to work with.
Erik_in_Hoyt
Platinum Member
rockler, woodcraft, mcfeeley's...
google "trim head screw" and quite a few options show up. (McFeeley's also sells a countersink and drill bit to limit splitting out - I'm pretty sure the others will as well)
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Gotta disagree with you on this. Staples will more then double the holding power of a nail or brad of the same size. The staple is just as long as the brad, but has the added holding force of going over what it's holding. I use 1 1/2 inch staples for those times when I want extra holding power, but don't want to have to hide the head of a screw.
The disadvantage to staples is they create more damage to the surface of what you go through then a brad. For baseboards or most trim, a brad is 2inch brad is perfect. For paneling or thin plywood on a ceiling, it's hard to beat a staple.
Eddie
2manyrocks
Super Member
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- Jul 28, 2007
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Your question----"What is the angle head nail used for? Does it fire into the wood at an angle so the nail head is level to the wood?"
The angle of the nailer is supposed to make it easier to hold the nail gun to shoot a nail in a corner. The nail strips that go into the nailer have to match the nail gun itself so they feed correctly. Getting the head of the nail level to the wood depends on (1) your holding the nailer so it drives the nail straight into the wood and (2) the depth setting on the nail gun. Most of them having settings so you control how deeply they drive the nail. You don't want the nail over or under driven if you can avoid it.
You could certainly predrill your holes and hand drive your nails as suggested. If you have a lot of flooring and will also be putting up a lot of trim, then a finish nailer should speed up your work.
The angle of the nailer is supposed to make it easier to hold the nail gun to shoot a nail in a corner. The nail strips that go into the nailer have to match the nail gun itself so they feed correctly. Getting the head of the nail level to the wood depends on (1) your holding the nailer so it drives the nail straight into the wood and (2) the depth setting on the nail gun. Most of them having settings so you control how deeply they drive the nail. You don't want the nail over or under driven if you can avoid it.
You could certainly predrill your holes and hand drive your nails as suggested. If you have a lot of flooring and will also be putting up a lot of trim, then a finish nailer should speed up your work.
Yes, but the point is moot. When I nail something, I don't use little bitty nails the size of staples.
If you ever remove T-111 siding, roof sheathing, OSB or plywood flooring, that has been stapled on, You will see, staples don't hold ****. Many times, you can pull the material off with your hands.
I recently did a job where $4K worth of vinyl floor was scrapped, because the builder stapled the sub floor down. The crowns of the staples were starting to pull out, and poke up through the vinyl after 3 years. This was particularly aggravating, because I told the homeowner, (a family member), NOT to let them use staples. The builder, (now out of business), assured him, they do it all the time, and there would be no problem.
Suit yourself, I own all different types of pneumatic staplers, off the top of my head, carpet is the only thing I can think of, I would use one for anymore. I'm not willing to risk my reputation, to save a few bucks on fasteners.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
OK, we're talking about different things here. I was referring to finish staples in trim and detail work. Not framing or rough in work. I've never seen staples used on OSB or plywood flooring except on mobile homes, and they are just pure junk anyway. Every corner that can be cut has been cut when assembling them. I've also seen exterior siding installed with staples on sheds where they also cut corners to the extreme.
In those conditions, I agree that staples do not hold as well as nails. For really good holding power, I prefer screws to nails, but for the most part, the right nail for the job is still the best choice.
Another place where I really hate staples is in shingles. In almost every case where I see shingles that have come loose, or there is some sort of a problem, staples were used. They just don't hold the shingles down when it gets windy and the shingle tears right through the staple. Of course, short nails are just as bad as staples. Those one inch roofing nails should be illegal, but roofers use them around here to save a buck on buying the longer nails.
Eddie
In those conditions, I agree that staples do not hold as well as nails. For really good holding power, I prefer screws to nails, but for the most part, the right nail for the job is still the best choice.
Another place where I really hate staples is in shingles. In almost every case where I see shingles that have come loose, or there is some sort of a problem, staples were used. They just don't hold the shingles down when it gets windy and the shingle tears right through the staple. Of course, short nails are just as bad as staples. Those one inch roofing nails should be illegal, but roofers use them around here to save a buck on buying the longer nails.
Eddie
This problem was mostly due to operator error. The staple is supposed to proud of the shingle. No penetration of the shingle is acceptable. Operators commonly used full available air pressure, and countersunk the staple half way through the shingle.
The other problem was, the shingles produced in the hey day of stapling, had a very high rate of defective sealing strips, and cellophane dividers sticking to the front as they were removed from the bundles. Careless installers did not remove these, or use adhesive on the missing areas, leaving the countersunk staples to hold the shingles on the roof.
When the seal strips work as they are supposed to, every fastener holds each individual shingle, in that case, if those staples are installed just proud of the shingle, and not countersunk, they will hold.
Many years ago, before roofing nailers, I stapled on about 250 sq. of shingles. Not one ever blew off.
My concern with it now would be that I have seen old OSB in a poorly ventilated attic, sometimes get spongy, and not hold a nail well, leading me to wonder how well it would hold a staple.
2manyrocks
Super Member
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- Jul 28, 2007
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The substrate makes a difference in whether staples hold or not. My hazy recollection is that nails are preferred for holding finish flooring to an OSB type subfloor.
Overdriven fasteners, nails or staples, aren't as secure are fasteners that are set to the correct depth.
Staples have their place. I built a stage platform out of 1 x 4's and 1 x 6's by stapling and gluing 1/4 plywood to make truss type connections. Staples are very good and cheap in that application because they just hold everything in place until the glue dries.
Overdriven fasteners, nails or staples, aren't as secure are fasteners that are set to the correct depth.
Staples have their place. I built a stage platform out of 1 x 4's and 1 x 6's by stapling and gluing 1/4 plywood to make truss type connections. Staples are very good and cheap in that application because they just hold everything in place until the glue dries.
OP
sunspot
Gold Member
I'm using staples as my main tool for the flooring. They are 15 guage, 1/2" crown and 2 1/2" long. I staple to every joist and 2 in between the joist. So far, on the few the did not penatrate due to user error, they hold very well. My errors were stuck in but good. I needed a large pair of channel locks to remove them.
