fire pump
- Thread starter offroader
- Start date
- Views: 11079
Ed of all trades
Elite Member
I was a fireman for over 10 years, use a 2" hose to get up the hill and then reduce to 1 1/2, that way you don't loose so much from friction loss. You will loose app. 30 lbs pressure just getting to your house and more if you go up. A very rough way to figure is 10 lbs loss for each floor you go up. That is VERY rough but it works in a hurry. You are right it takes a man and a half to hold a 2" hose and he has to know how then. If you can get 60 lbs of pressure at the nozzle on a 1 1/2 hose you will do fine. I don't know the pumps you are using so I will leave that to others. Ed
Thanks Ed for your help. I don't yet have a pump as I'm trying to figure out what I can get by with without spending too much. I was thinking of the 2" uphill idea then reducing to 1-1/2" as well. Glad you brought that up. I've been looking at the Honda and Northstar high pressure pumps with Honda engines and there's a Kodiak brand out of Canada. Did you use portable pumps on the job?
Last edited:
CDN Farm Boy
Veteran Member
My suggestion wasn't about reducing draft height but for overall simplicity of deployment and operation. I was throwing it out there as an option for you. When we need a portable pump on scene, the floaters are our go-to. The non-floating pump we have stays in the truck as backup.... It might have been used twice in the last decade. Been there done that, no need to try and reinvent the wheel.
One thing is for certain, FDs everywhere all use some of portable pump. I have NEVER heard of carrying a well pump for these purposes, submersible or not. Leave the well pump for running the house, its not a firefighting tool.
Cord
Veteran Member
Those Honda pumps are not a fire pump. They are somewhere in between a trash pump and a clear water pump. The 55psi max pressure is what gives it away. Fire pumps will put out 200psi of pressure and cost 3x as much.
WM75Guy
Elite Member
What you have to determine is how much water do you want to shoot how far. Are you wanting something for putting out small fires or fighting a structure fire. A defensive operation to protect your property from catching on fire can be done a lot cheaper versus an offensive operation to put it out once it catches on fire.
For the situation you describe using hydraulic calculations for pumping a fire apparatus with 200' of rubber lined 1 1/2" hose and a standard 95 GPM fog nozzle with 20' of elevation you need 95 GPM @ 170 PSI at the pump discharge. Nozzles are designed to operate at 100 PSI, friction loss in the hose is 60 PSI and the elevation head is 10 PSI. The Honda pump will not get it done at 55 PSI max. Even with a straight bore nozzle it will not be adequate.
With a centrifugal pump the higher the pressure the less the volume. Fire pumps are rated at 100% capacity at 150 PSI, 70% capacity at 200 PSI, and 50% capacity at 250 PSI. They will be more expensive than a trash pump or utility water pump like the Honda WH15. Reducing from 2" to 1 1/2" will not help you. Reducing the hose diameter increases friction loss therefore requiring more pressure to move the same volume of water.
You could consider doing something using pressures like a typical municipal pressure of 60-80 PSI. You can get a small higher PSI pump and run the 1 1/2" hose up to the house. Less volume means less friction loss. Wye it off to two 1" forestry hoses 50' long. Some of the commercial 1" nozzles will throw a decent stream of 12-24 GPM depending on pressure. That's more like the redline you see on many fire apparatus. That will allow you to have some protection for your property. It won't do for structural firefighting but at least it is something.
NorthStar High-Pressure Water Pump — 3in. Ports, 10,550 GPH, 116 PSI, 270cc Honda GX270 Engine | Engine Driven High Pressure Pumps| Northern Tool + Equipment
1" NPSH Fog Nozzle
Good luck and stay safe.
For the situation you describe using hydraulic calculations for pumping a fire apparatus with 200' of rubber lined 1 1/2" hose and a standard 95 GPM fog nozzle with 20' of elevation you need 95 GPM @ 170 PSI at the pump discharge. Nozzles are designed to operate at 100 PSI, friction loss in the hose is 60 PSI and the elevation head is 10 PSI. The Honda pump will not get it done at 55 PSI max. Even with a straight bore nozzle it will not be adequate.
With a centrifugal pump the higher the pressure the less the volume. Fire pumps are rated at 100% capacity at 150 PSI, 70% capacity at 200 PSI, and 50% capacity at 250 PSI. They will be more expensive than a trash pump or utility water pump like the Honda WH15. Reducing from 2" to 1 1/2" will not help you. Reducing the hose diameter increases friction loss therefore requiring more pressure to move the same volume of water.
You could consider doing something using pressures like a typical municipal pressure of 60-80 PSI. You can get a small higher PSI pump and run the 1 1/2" hose up to the house. Less volume means less friction loss. Wye it off to two 1" forestry hoses 50' long. Some of the commercial 1" nozzles will throw a decent stream of 12-24 GPM depending on pressure. That's more like the redline you see on many fire apparatus. That will allow you to have some protection for your property. It won't do for structural firefighting but at least it is something.
NorthStar High-Pressure Water Pump — 3in. Ports, 10,550 GPH, 116 PSI, 270cc Honda GX270 Engine | Engine Driven High Pressure Pumps| Northern Tool + Equipment
1" NPSH Fog Nozzle
Good luck and stay safe.
schmism
Super Member
as a previous member of a fire dept, Ive spent some time behind at the end of a fire hose.
1.5" hose at 100PSI you will only be able to effectively run for about 10 min before you are exhausted. thats standing there holding a hose, not moving it around. at 75psi you can expect to double or tripple that time.
for single man use i Highly recommend wild land fire service equipment. eg 1" "cotton" flat hose at 200' @ 50-75psi is easy to handle one man.
1.5" hose at 100PSI you will only be able to effectively run for about 10 min before you are exhausted. thats standing there holding a hose, not moving it around. at 75psi you can expect to double or tripple that time.
for single man use i Highly recommend wild land fire service equipment. eg 1" "cotton" flat hose at 200' @ 50-75psi is easy to handle one man.
leonz
Super Member
AS I have mentioned ,and which I will do it once more using
a submersible will reduce your head loss to a minimum because
of the turbines in the pump!!! you can run a one inch stream of
water with it and not require a tank or anything else.
That pump cares not what the end use is, you can get 80 pounds
pressure forever from the submersible pump for hundreds of feet
and use a one inch hose with a fire nozzle.
a submersible will reduce your head loss to a minimum because
of the turbines in the pump!!! you can run a one inch stream of
water with it and not require a tank or anything else.
That pump cares not what the end use is, you can get 80 pounds
pressure forever from the submersible pump for hundreds of feet
and use a one inch hose with a fire nozzle.
I talked to the people @ Northern tool who told me that with the 106470 2" pump I should get about 85 psi with 150 feet of hose and 20 feet of elevation gain. Do you think that would be enough to knock down a grass fire? I don't have trees near my structures so it would probably be a grass fire I would be trying to knock down before it's too late, Not too fight a structure fire.