Fired Road contractor. Build it myself?

[WoodChuckDad]

Short story- I had a contractor who was supposed to start last week dressing my dirt road and laying gravel---he never showed so I told him not to come

long story
I had several contractors come take a look at my road and give me bids on rolling out the gravel. Two bids that I considered for roughly 1/4 mile of road. The road is already rough cut by a bulldozer, including a switchback that will require a little bit of expanding. I have driven it in my truck with no problem but it is bumpy. Each bid came to about $8,000-$10,000 labor plus the cost of stone. Stone cost should be $8k-&10k. The road is currently 10-11 feet. One bid was going to open it to 11 feet and cut down deeper...they said that it needed to get below any roots that might still be there...then grade it and put down #3 for 2 inches and cover that with 4 inches of crusher run. Then compact it. sloped slightly for runoff. no ditching. If any culvert or ditch were needed that would extra. Price was $8,000. Bid was presented in an attached document to an email
Second bid was 12 feet wide. He said it didn't need to go deeper and didn't need the #3 stone. Said that would actually make it less stable. HE recommended 6 inches crusher run. Again, sloping outward and any culver would be extra. His bid was $10,000. Bid was presented in an email. I went with the second bid because he said he could move the equipment and start much sooner. There was no contract,
He was supposed to move his equipment this past Wednesday....the day before Thanksgiving. Said he had an employee who wanted to work friday sat and sunday. Sounded good. Wednesday morning he contacted me to get detailed instructions on getting to the property, to give to who was moving the equipment. Wednesday came and went....no equipment. and no contact from the contractor. Friday afternoon I went to the land to check things out. No equipment and no contact from the guy. Late afternoon I asked if they were planning to move and start Monday. He said they couldn't move the equipment earlier because of permits and holidays. But said they were going to try to get it done early Saturday. Weekend passed with no contact...Monday I was on the land working all day. Nothing. And no contact. This morning I texted him early and said we were not going to use him. He called within 5 minutes to smooth things. I said thanks but no. He texted me several times after that offering a discount and asking if he could make it right. I stuck to my gut and said no. IT was time for us to part ways.

I am now thinking that I can probably do this myself. I have a 73 horsepower tractor and an excavator. The road is rough cut....here is a picture.


I can use the excavator to widen it. I think I could buy a hydraulic blade for the rear of the tractor and use that to smooth it out before laying gravel. I could then have the crusher run delivered and rent a roller for a week. and roll it myself. I would save about 5 grand in labor.....burn a couple vacation days and eat several weekends but I would have a nice hydraulic blade when I am done, to help maintain the road and remove any snow that we might get.

Am I crazy?

 

[WoodChuckDad]

BTW. I had the road rough cut when I had a bulldozer there from the logging company doing clean up. They had already pilled up debris, The road had already been cut but was too steep so we changed the line and had him doing it again. My mistake on the line to take so I sucked it up but he did that in an hour so I wasn't out too much.

 

[davesl708]

From the looks of it from the one pic you will need at least one culvert to drain water under the road.
The first bid makes more sense. You need a good bed under the gravel to keep the road stable and not end up with sink holes in soft spots.

If you plan to do it yourself you need to get info on proper road bed construction. It is not as simple as bid two makes it out. Just dumping gravel on dirt will not work.

Good luck with the project.

 

[Tompet]

Are you in a big hurry? It just depends money vs your time...it's already roughed in and with your equipment I say go for it. Do one section and see how it goes with you prepping and having material delivered.

Btw, looks like beautiful setting!

 

[PILOON]

Around here contractors generally make roads using only excavators.
Of the dozen or so contractors I know none have dozers and most simply rent a roller compactor when a high quality finish is called for.
They dig and rake using bucket teeth.
Spread gravel by raking with teeth.
Grade by swinging bucket side to side.*
Compact by driving back and forth.

Stumps and slash they dig large holes and bury them.
The preferred finish is crushed re cycled asphalt, again compacted with excavator.
Re cycled asphalt is preferred as it prevents washout on hills as it re cooks to a very acceptable top dressing plus cheaper than crushed stone.

*They all hard coat the bucket bottoms to delay wear.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm a do it yourself kind of guy and don't think roads are all that complicated, but if you cut a single corner, you will always have problems. Every problem with a road is from water. You have to plan for the very worse case scenario, and then double it. Look at how big the ditches and culverts are used by the County where the land is located.

From what I see in your picture, the real challenge is going to be digging out a big ditch on the uphill side of your road. You want it as wide as possible, and with slopes along either side that you can maintain with your mower. This is where most people run into trouble because they just dig it big enough to handle the rain, but then when the rains happen, it erodes and they cannot maintain it. Or it's too narrow to fix properly without damaging the road. 12 to 15 feet total width for a ditch is a good minimum.

If you pile the dirt onto your road, compacting it will be very difficult. I would only do that if I needed to build up the road. Otherwise, it's better to haul off. You want your road surface as virgin as possible. If you have to build it up, be sure to do it in layers and compact it. Clay type soils need a sheepsfoot to compact it, but with the right amount of moisture, the front tires of a tractor with a load of dirt in the bucket does a fair job too.

Never add rock until the dirt of the road is solid.

Talk to the owner of the rock supply what county code is for roads. This varies all over the country and you will get a lot of local suggestions, but the only one that matters is from those who do this for a living there. I would trust the supplier more then I would trust a contractor. I'm not saying all contractors are dishonest, but there are enough of them out there that will sell you stuff you don't need just to pad what they make.

Once you get all the dirt work done, which is 90% of the job, you can then spread the rock yourself, which is a very repetitive process that you may consider hiring out. Some rock suppliers will have trucks that spread it as they dump it. Others will just dump it in a pile and leave you to move it. If you can only move a yard at a time with your front bucket, you need to know how long this will take.

 

[teg]

Definitely do the work yourself. Find a dump truck driver that will spread the gravel as he dumps. I built a road down to our creek. I would not worry too much about getting it exactly right the first time. You can always rework the road as needed. If you plan to build a house there, putting down 3" rock and letting construction traffic compact it, is not a bad idea.

You need to study how the water runs on your property. How much water (area to the ridge)... How fast the water runs (steepness) all play a part in designing a road. For us, I had a few truck loads of 3 to 4" rock dropped in wet and or "filled" areas, then most of the rest of the road was able to just lay down Crusher Run on the ground but I did a ditch on the inside hill to keep the road bed dry.

You need read all about road building...

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I've been reading and watching some YouTube videos. After building my bridge, I'm not too intimidated. I think I can do this. And I was planning to do a ditch on the inside with a few culverts along the length of it to keep washout down.

 

[airbiscuit]

I like your plan. It might be worth another hour or two of cat time to widen and ditch the road. They can do more faster with less wear and tear on your tractor. Plus, if in doubt, go a little wider!

 

[Egon]

A rear blade will do a lot of work for you on that road. Just make sure it extends beyond the tractor tire's and can be tilted. Might be able to widen the road and dig the inside ditch with just the blade. The secrete is rolling a windrow back and forth over the width of the road and packing it in the intervals. Gage wheels would also help.

For the top finish crushed gravel will do just fine all by itself.

The blade will also see duty maintaining the road over the years.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

The local stone guy, who I already bout 165 tons of #57 from, for the back full on my bridge, walked the road and told me he would use crusher run. I'm weighing all options before deciding what to use.
As for the blade, how much wider than my tractor should I go? I have an 84 inch box blade and it sits just about flush with the width of the tractor.

 

[CADplans]

I have been building/maintaining my 1/4 mile road since 1982.
I have used, at different times, 3 different rear blades, a box blade, and a landscape rake.

Taking care of the driveway did not become easy, until I built a landplane.

IMHO, you will not know exactly where the culverts are required, for a year or more.
Plan on installing them later.

If I were to build that road (my tractor is about the size of yours), I would shape the road with the landplane.
This might take 3 hours, it might take a day.

Then, I would roll the road.

My roller is a small DIY,, 1/2" thick ductile iron pipe full of concrete,,, it is perfect, for me.

Once I got the dirt base VERY stable, I would add 6 inches of what we call pug,, or mill run.
This is what the state (Virginia) uses around Roanoke as a base under new asphalt roads.

If the driver tailgates the material properly, you can then roll the material.
Next, shape the road again with the landplane.

Roll the road again,, and enjoy.

I lived in Charles City for a while, and built a lot of road in similar soil conditions.
If you use crusher run, you will need a large stone base, to stabilize the road.
Pug will seal the soil away from the water,,, without the pug, the road can get spongy from rain.

My road is closer to concrete than gravel,, the pug REALLY packs tight.

If you spend less than $2,000 for a landplane, it is too light.
If you want to build a landplane, there is a thread on how I built the one in the pics,,,

 

[ustmd]

+100000 on getting the land plane if you are going to do it yourself. I've got 0.75 miles of compacted road. I spent years using a box blade. Getting the land plane (or dual bevel box blade as they are generic known), made a world of difference in laying down material and dressing the road.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I have been building/maintaining my 1/4 mile road since 1982. I have used, at different times, 3 different rear blades, a box blade, and a landscape rake. Taking care of the driveway did not become easy, until I built a landplane. IMHO, you will not know exactly where the culverts are required, for a year or more. Plan on installing them later. If I were to build that road (my tractor is about the size of yours), I would shape the road with the landplane. This might take 3 hours, it might take a day. Then, I would roll the road. My roller is a small DIY,, 1/2" thick ductile iron pipe full of concrete,,, it is perfect, for me. Once I got the dirt base VERY stable, I would add 6 inches of what we call pug,, or mill run. This is what the state (Virginia) uses around Roanoke as a base under new asphalt roads. If the driver tailgates the material properly, you can then roll the material. Next, shape the road again with the landplane. Roll the road again,, and enjoy. I lived in Charles City for a while, and built a lot of road in similar soil conditions. If you use crusher run, you will need a large stone base, to stabilize the road. Pug will seal the soil away from the water,,, without the pug, the road can get spongy from rain. My road is closer to concrete than gravel,, the pug REALLY packs tight. If you spend less than $2,000 for a landplane, it is too light. If you want to build a landplane, there is a thread on how I built the one in the pics,,,

my farm is in crozet. More like your Roanoke soil. I don't know how the land plane works and don't really understand the advantage.

 

[CADplans]

my farm is in crozet. More like your Roanoke soil. I don't know how the land plane works and don't really understand the advantage.

Like I said,, I avoided them for over a decade,, I could not handle the cost of a landplane.
When I built mine, after the first hour of use,, I realized what I had been missing.

S M O O T H +++ !! :thumbsup:
and,, it does a great job of shaping my driveway crown.

The long length of the runners I believe is the trick,,, plus the low blade that allows the material to go over.

Time to do some research. YouTube has some videos,, but, they are all light units.
Mine weighs over 1,500 pounds, I may add weight.

The YouTube videos will give you an idea of what it can do,,,
maybe some day I will do a video so there will be a heavy landplane video.

The guys who sell them "fib" a lot on weight,,, Mine is made out of 1/2" sides, theirs is 1/4",,,
yet they claim the same or greater weight.

 

[LD1]

"crusher run" or 1-1/2" minus......around here we call 304's. Its anything and everything that will fit through a 1-1/2" screen. Big stuff down to dust.

We do NOT use it around here for base normally. ITs either a top coat or a intermediate coat, depending on how you want the finished road to look.

A typical base around here consists of the base layer of what we call 1's and 2's. This is all larger stone....~3"-4" stuff.

That base is then topped with the 304's (crusher run), which allows the fines to work in and lock the larger stuff together. How much traffic, and how heavy the loads will determine the thickness of the layers.

Pretty common is 4" of the 1's & 2's.....Then 2" of the 304's.

Leaving the 304's for the topcoat is fine. But some prefer a smoother finish than the 304's leave, which does allow some of the larger 1-1/2" stones to be near the surface. Topcoats of preference are 57's (3/4" stuff) or #8's (3/8" stuff). The top coat layer only needs to be an inch or two thick as well.

I dont know your soil structure, or what is the norm in VA, but I personally wouldnt build a road with just 6-8" of crusher run.

And as others mentioned.......the issue you are gonna have is ditches. Cutting a road across the edge of the hillside like you have done.....when it rains the water HAS to get from the uphill side to the downhill side. Without a ditch on the uphill side, directing all the water to a culvert or two......the only way water can get down hill is either 1. Across 2. Under 3. Through your road and road bed. NONE of which is a good thing.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

It looks like my education is continuing. To achieve the ditch in the manner that I imagine it, I will need to use the excavator and a rear blade.
I already have about 1/4 mile of gravel road that leads to the beginning of this road so I will be over 1/2 mile of gravel road when it is done. Land plane might be in my future but I can't afford all the toys at once.
Making a decision on gravel size is the kicker. Fortunately I have time to look ok around at other folks methods while I work on the road. I'm sure it will take me a month or so. Not too bad a problem since I can't start the house build till spring.

He do I chose blade size?

 

[LD1]

He do I chose blade size?

Ideally, you want one that will cover your tracks when angled.

SO you have to look at the tractors width.

Blade angled to 45 degrees........multiple is .7
Blade at 40 degrees...................multiple is .77
Blade angled at 35 degrees........multiple is .82

What that means........if you have a 9' blade......

9 x .7 = blade will cover 6.3' of track width when angled to 45 degrees
9 x .77 = blade will cover 6.93' of track width when at 40 degree angle.

For doing road work, I think you are really gonna want a blade that has hydraulic angle, tilt, and offset. And the heavier the better.

I think a 9'....while it would work......wouldnt be ideal. I think you would want at least a 10' blade on that tractor.

 

[Rustyiron]

After watching you build your "bridge", I know you can do it and at minimum, end up with a few new attachments for your fleet in the end. I would look out for a swivel ditching bucket, sometimes called a clean up bucket for your excavator. They are usually about 5-6' wide, no teeth and it can swivel (or swing up & down in relation to your stick) to make an excellent ditching & grading bucket. They are not cheap but if you keep your eye out for a used one and already have "plumbing" on the stick you will be amazed at the new capabilities of your excavator. I'll continue with the "land plane" recomendation, another tool that will simply out perform any rear blade or box. I can testify to the toughness of the "roadrunner" blade Grading Blades for Tractors and Skid Loaders, Roadrunner Construction Equipment and there made up in MD or PA. Basically they have a lot more weight and a more aggressive blade angle than rear blades or box blades and that combination will make it cut 10X better. They do actually carry material as well although it does not look like it would.

 

[deerefan]

I have been building/maintaining my 1/4 mile road since 1982.
I have used, at different times, 3 different rear blades, a box blade, and a landscape rake.

Taking care of the driveway did not become easy, until I built a landplane.

IMHO, you will not know exactly where the culverts are required, for a year or more.
Plan on installing them later.

If I were to build that road (my tractor is about the size of yours), I would shape the road with the landplane.
This might take 3 hours, it might take a day.

Then, I would roll the road.

My roller is a small DIY,, 1/2" thick ductile iron pipe full of concrete,,, it is perfect, for me.

Once I got the dirt base VERY stable, I would add 6 inches of what we call pug,, or mill run.
This is what the state (Virginia) uses around Roanoke as a base under new asphalt roads.

If the driver tailgates the material properly, you can then roll the material.
Next, shape the road again with the landplane.

Roll the road again,, and enjoy.

I lived in Charles City for a while, and built a lot of road in similar soil conditions.
If you use crusher run, you will need a large stone base, to stabilize the road.
Pug will seal the soil away from the water,,, without the pug, the road can get spongy from rain.

My road is closer to concrete than gravel,, the pug REALLY packs tight.

If you spend less than $2,000 for a landplane, it is too light.
If you want to build a landplane, there is a thread on how I built the one in the pics,,,

That is a nice looking road there. I see a raised edge on the downward slope-does the water pool there or run thru? A road is only as good as its base. Prep the soil accordingly. Take some samples and have them tested. It may require a small amount of lime to get the plasticity in a suitable range. Lime is pretty cheap. Usually, as you cut down, at least in my area, you get into a fatter clay, requiring lime. I put 900ft of road in at my farm. I cut the road in, removing roughly 6" of top soil. I then added powdered lime, cut that in about 10-12 inches down, keeping it moist as lime activates better when wet. I smoothed it back down, let it sit for a few days to allow the lime to work. I then crowned the road with my dozer, following that up with a roller for compaction. I opted to test it just to check myself. It came back at 98% with moisture content at about 14-15%. I laid wash gravel down and other than maintenance grading have not added gravel in he 13 years I have used it or had any failures. I spent roughly $4k, not counting my time.