Firewood Logging

beenthere · Mar 1, 2003

Been pulling in white oak for making firewood for two years from now. This attached picture of white oak butt log which came up out of the woods easily using the 3pt I-match and logging tongs. Will buck to 20 inch lengths, and split, stack, dry for two years minimum before burning. Weather perfect at 20 - 25 degrees and ground still frozen.

Knight9 · Mar 1, 2003

Firewood??? Looks more like lumber to me!!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif In my neighborhood where all we have growing are spruce, pine and the good old poplar....oak like that would never be burnt!!! It would be sacrilege!

Kevin

JohnMiller3 · Mar 1, 2003

( Looks more like lumber to me!!! )

( Been pulling in white oak for making firewood for two years from now… )

From the picture you posted… without knowing the current mill rates… you may have about a $1200. oak log you’re burning up… /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Now, that could buy a lot of scrap cords of firewood… /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

beenthere · Mar 1, 2003

You are right that there are a few good boards in that log. But the big sweep and crook don't show up well the way it is hanging there - almost a pistol butt, if you know what I mean. And can't beat that white oak for firewood and holding a good fire overnight. I usually cull (TSI-timber stand improvement) out the big, old white oaks and leave the straight ones for someone in the future who may make them into lumber. About 50 percent of my trees are white oak, about 15 % are walnut, about 10 % red oak, and about 10 % are white ash. The rest are soft maple, basswood, cherry (poor quality), aspen, hackberry, and a few elm. A good mixture of species on an east slope of glacial moraine woods of about 15 acres. At today's fuel prices, these trees are worth more every day. If the quality was higher in the bigger white oaks, it might pay to have them logged and take the money to buy fuel. But I like logging myself, as much as making the firewood, so I go directly to the fuelwood and leave out the middle man.

gordon · Mar 1, 2003

Sounds like you have a good knowledge of your stand. Shame more people don't that the time to do some simple TSI.

Gordon

beenthere · Mar 1, 2003

JohnMiller3
It does look better in the picture than it really is. That dead limb shown cut off has caused the rot to penetrate to the center of the log, and this tree was a low quality one compared to the others I left around it. It was leaning quite a bit (plunge cut the back cut so it wouldn't barber-chair when I felled it) and the first 12 feet was covered with dead limbs. I usually try to keep the trees trimmed up, but this one apparently escaped my trimming runs. Above this log, the tree is very limby, which will not make lumber but will also make good firewood. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Now I won't know for sure if it will bring me $1200 but you have a real good point that needs to be considered. If I had a small portable mill I would not hesitate to put this log on it and make a bit of lumber - then stack it for air drying and find a buyer.

Egon · Mar 1, 2003

Kevin:
Spoken like a true Praire Boy!!!

Wish I could spell.

Egon

rancar · Mar 1, 2003

"...This attached picture of white oak butt log which came up out of the woods easily using the 3pt I-match and logging tongs..."

I appreciate your posts. You've shown your pics of logging tongs elsewhere and this motivated me to get a pair myself from Forestry Suppliers. The ones I purchased are 1" thick with spread that opens to 25" w/swival grab hook. I'm curious to know what the spread is on your tongs. Also, I notice you're using a 4300 to haul the log. What's your thinking of maximum hauling capacity of your machine? That is, what's the biggest and longest log you think you can haul out of the woods? I have a 4710 and looking forward to doing just as you are doing in a few weeks as soon as the snows melt down somewhat.

Thanks again for the pics and the inspiration. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

...Bob

JohnMiller3 · Mar 1, 2003

( It does look better in the picture than it really is... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

That picture sure looks deceiving... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Get a chance, take a look at one of these Wood-Mizers in operation... mostly hydraulics, very little effort, and great results...!

gordon · Mar 1, 2003

Hay John is there anything that you don't have a picture of?

If you want to figure board foot or how much the log is worth there are calculators located here.

Timberbuyers toolbox

Gordon

JohnMiller3 · Mar 1, 2003

Hi Gordon,

Saw this in operation at the New York Farm Show... really a slick setup and the guys made it look super simple with the hydraulics...

What kind of mill do you use in your work?

gordon · Mar 1, 2003

It sure would be nice to have an all hydraulic bandmill. Heck for me it would be nice to have a manual mill at the house. Anything that I cut goes to the sawmill(that is good quality). Junk gets turned into firewood. I have nothing other than chainsaws. There are a few Amish circle mills within a couple miles of my house. Then a few more circle mills within 10 miles of the house.

Did you check out the link to the timber calculators?

Gordon

beenthere · Mar 1, 2003

Thanks for the mill pic John. I agree with your thoughts of the Woodmizer mills.

I am familiar with the WM mills, and sawed about 10,000 bdft of my red oak logs on one about 10 years ago. I cooperated with an experimental system of cutting logs into short sections of 3 - 6 feet in 1 ft lengths, then using a Woodmizer mill to saw all the logs into quarter sawn lumber. This was done by sawing each 'short' log into quarters, then sawing the widest face of each quarter until nothing was left. In a sense, it was like sawing the logs from the inside out, rather than cutting slabs off the outside (tossing out the highest grade of wood in the log) just to square up the log to saw boards. With the quarter-sawing system, every board had bark (wane) along one edge and we salvaged everything that would yield at least a 1 inch wide cutting. The system was followed through the drying stage to measure yield, which was in the neighborhood of 92% in lumber. That is a lot more than conventional sawing. The band mills take a narrow kerf and also increase yield over some of the circular mills. There are a lot of good small sawmills on the market now, but my time is spent with other things and sawing logs and taking care of green to dry lumber isn't in the immediate future. It would be fun though.
35 years ago I cut and sawed all the oak for my house, including the panelling (1500 sqft), oak flooring, jambs, casing, and base with help from a sawyer friend who had his own circular saw rig.

beenthere · Mar 1, 2003

That log came out of the woods without causing any problem or using much hp from the tractor. I have the plow on the front for weight (which makes it tougher to pick ones way around the trees in the woods) and it handled it well. I think I could go bigger but probably wont try it intentionally anyway. I go slow, because if the log catches on anything, the frontend could raise and then one either needs to let off the HST (or put in the clutch), or lower the 3pt to put the log back on the ground, or both. On this log I didn't even have to steer with the individual brakes, which happens if the front end gets real light from a heavy log.
Your 25" tongs are what I have. I will measure and post tomorrow if they are different than that on this log. I don't have the grab hook on the tongs, just the ring. Do you plan to use an I-match on your 3 pt?

Your 4700 should handle this size oak log up to 24', if there is room to pull it without damaging a lot of trees along the way. I sometimes chain posts to trees that I don't want the bark scraped up, as this will leave a scar on the tree forever and decrease the grade of the log (sometimes creates a place for decay to enter the tree too).

Today I worked in the woods and was glad I had remembered to wear my hard hat. A limb fell from high up and hit me on the head. Pushed that helmet down over my ears, but saved me from being knocked out or having a pretty bad cut. It was a dead white oak about 8 ft long and about 2" of good wood yet. I felt real lucky the rest of the day.

Knight9 · Mar 1, 2003

Egon,

( Spoken like a true Praire Boy!!! )

You picked up on that eh?! Ya, I like the West, but we sure could use the hardwood forests you folks have out East. That's why I'm planting all kinds of nice trees at my place. Put in some oak and maples last year. We'll add more this year. The colors alone make a huge improvement over the plain old yellow of the poplars in the fall.

Kevin

rancar · Mar 2, 2003

beenthere...

"...Do you plan to use an I-match on your 3 pt?..."

No....don't have the I-Match. I was planning on hitching the tong's grabhook onto the Cat 1 drawbar's middle hole. I was thinking of pinning a clevis-type alloy choke ring into the middle hole of the drawbar that would then easily latch onto the tong's grabhook. While I liked your I-Match set-up, I couldn't justify buying one just for pulling logs out of the woods.

....Bob

woodmills1 · Mar 2, 2003

just a note on white oak. I have a woodmizer and found a customer who makes barrels. he will buy quarter sawn white
oak at 2-3 bucks per bd ft green. because he makes barrels of all sizes he takes wood down to 3 inches wide and can use any clear sections of a foot and longer. makes it worth it to quarter even some knarly white oaks if the diameter is there.

rancar · Mar 3, 2003

Thanks for the link Gordon.

Another question though. Would you have information or weblinks on what the actual current and weekly/monthly prevailing rates are for U.S lumber prices broken down by tree species? I have loggers coming up to my place all the time quoting me prices on saw and veneer logs. Some of these guys and their prices are so divergent I don't know what to believe and who's telling me the truth. I figure if I had an accurate source of information on current prices I would then have a fairly accurate input variable for the online calculators that are on the Timberbuyers Toolbox. This would at least provide some relative guidance to help me decide how best I can harvest my woodlots. Thanks.

....Bob

AndyR · Mar 3, 2003

Check with your county Extension Agent or county forrester. Rates will vary by region though we are both in areas where the Canadian market has an influence on prices. Make sure the price quoted includes all cleanup etc. of the jobsite and that you make clear what your expectations are concerning density of cut, what's to be left behind, etc.

beenthere · Mar 3, 2003

I don't mean to horn in on your question to gordon, but do yourself a big favor and contact a forester to help you deal with any log buyers. They will help you get the best prices, get a contract to protect you from what a few shady log buyers can get away with (you won't believe some of the tricks they have up their sleeve if you don't have a contract), and will help you learn how good your trees really are. A lot of the price differences you are geting depend on the volume and grade lumber (or veneer) that can be removed from the logs in the eye of the bidder (buyer). You either need to have someone that is trained be on your side, or learn what the trees you have will produce. The white oak log I pulled up looked in the picture like it might be a $1200 log. But what didn't show were the dead branch stubs, the rot in the center, the knot indicators on the bark that showed there was no high grade lumber beneath the bark, and there was a big sweep as well as a crook to the log. All these contributed to this log being a low grade one that I chose to put into the firewood pile (where the quality is not a factor, only if the wood is sound).
Don't hear me wrong, there are a lot of very honest log buyers out there, having to deal with the not-so-honest log buyers as well. The good ones get a bad rap, but the foresters will likely know who the good ones are and can steer you in the right direction. There are state and local foresters, as well as consulting foresters whose business is based on happy customers.