Firewood processor with winch

[OneUp]

Thank you ericm979, I have seen them around but never knew their name. I have seen them for collecting maple sap in these parts. Not toxic at all, kinda tastes like lead.

 

[OneUp]

I see that the Blacks Creek uses a .325 pitch chain while most others use .404 with I am gussing a deeper cut. Are there significant differences between them? Given my small lot I have gotten away with only having a 16" bar on my .325 chain. Is the .404 more robust?

 

[Thunder chicken]

The 404 chain is ‘thicker’. It will take a lot more power to cut. It’s used on some large cc saws and mechanical harvester machines. You won’t find a 404 bar under 20” likely and they’ll be a lot more expensive. 325 pitch is available at every saw shop and is relatively cheap. You processor is no more than a chainsaw and wood splitter mounted together. No need to make it complicated.
My machine is out away right now so I can’t get a pic of the chain driver but essentially it is a tube that’s fixed, with another tube inside that acts as the pivot with the pull down lever attached to it, with a set of bearings inside the inner tube with a shaft running through that is powered on one end by a belt/pulley from the engine and the other has a splined end to take the drive sprocket for the chain. It works quite well. Belts wear out but are cheap and if there’s a jam or other weird occurrence, the belt will slip. I’ve looked at making it hydraulic powered but it would cost $1000’s, require more hp to run (more fuel) and not be any faster.
these guys have neat stuff to give you some ideas

6K Products - Hydraulic & Belt Driven Chain Saws

6kproducts.com

 

[OneUp]

So what I am hearing is that as much as I wanted to learn hydraulics by doing an elaborate processor, practically, it isn't worth it. Doesn't sound as fun.

New setup;
.325 chain driven by a belt from a ? jackshaft? (the 6K unit looks nice)
Manual bar advance
Hydraulic log clamp (still don't trust that other arm)
Hydraulic full auto splitter with 4 to 4-1/2" cylinder with large dia rod
Manually adjusted 4-way splitter
Maybe an electric winch in the 1 to 1-1/2 thousand force pound range

The motor that I was hoping to use has a vertical shaft but does have a charging circuit. (Hence the electric winch which would be a lot cheaper)

Question;
What does the clutch look like for the belt drive chainsaw?
How to "turn" the motor shaft horizontal?
I guess the ~50 gal hydraulic tank from craigslist is a bit overkill now? Yeah, rhetorical
What is the best way to get the adjustable 4-way splitter? I like the design that had the vertical plate that acts as a backer to a "floating" splitter but that means a lot of cutting on a wide flange beam. Has anyone used two C-channels back to back and between them weld the hydraulic cylinder mounting boss and splitter backer plate?

 

[OneUp]

With the manually adjusted splitter head, what kind of verticals loads are seen, that the mechanism needs to react?

 

[Stomper]

Being new to hydraulics, I was hoping to get some constructive criticism on a project that I am stating to layout. The goal is to design/fab a firewood processor for home use. I burn anywhere from 4 to 6 cords a year, here in the northeast USA and the labor force (kids) will be leaving the nest soon.
Some parameters;
* Cycle time is not critical unless you are talking the two wheel kind.
* Current operation is mostly manual
* Given the terrain, I will winch the logs to the processor (no loading table)
* logs are mostly maples (red, sugar, striped), silver birch, cheery, and beech in the 12 to 14" diameter range
* hydraulic chain saw, log clamp, winch, and splitter for the main components

I was hoping to automate as much as possible so I was looking at the splitter directional valve - Prince Part number 9-6587-PB to handle the auto out and back. The winch would be it's own directional valve to handle retract, free wheel, and maybe a hold function. (not sure what valve) For the rest, I was thinking I could use sequence valves to handle the log clamp, saw motor, and cut arm piston.
Not knowing anything about the hardware side of hydraulics;
- are there directional valves with built in sequence valves
- if not would I need a manifold for each
- is that an efficient way of handling those related functions
- what kind of pressure drop or heat buildup is expected with sequence valves
- are the valves adjustable or do they come in set actuation pressures

There has been discussions regarding the automated chain saw feed cylinder but given the wood I have, it should be easier to find a 90% functional solution for the feed rate/pressure. I could give each function a valve but I'm sure there is a more efficient and eloquent method and I would like to learn some of the practical tradeoff between them. Reading the other posts have helped but I have not seen this combination before which changes too many variable to apply their methods.
any guidance would be appreciated, thanks

I was/am in the exact same boat as you but I am in the middle of building a processor right now. My original design was very similar to yours and it was also also following the wallenstien design. It has been quite the learning process for me but I like the challenge. I am using an auto cycle splitter valve with power beyond to control my 4 way wedge. The splitter and wedge is the only hydraulics in the design. I will be using an atv winch to pull the logs into the processor and my chainsaw for cutting the logs. Using my own chainsaw keeps the cost down alot. I made a quick detach mount for it so that I can remove it and use it eleswhere if needed. The design of it has changed some throughout the build as some thing dont quite work in real life like they do in my head. I start days off tomorrow and can get some pictures for you if you are interested

 

[OneUp]

Stomper
Yes, I would be very interested in seeing your build. Did you start your fab with an idea and a cocktail napkin (rough sketch)[not sure if "cocktail napkin" is a regional thing or "jargon"] or were you able to draft it or use CAD for your layout?
I am still getting over the pairing down of the original design. Reluctantly got an electric ATV winch last weekend so that I can add it to the CAD model layout but now that means I definitely need to get the old riding mower motor running along with its charging system. Will probably need a electronic PTO clutch also... I will be going with Thunder Chicken's recommendation of belt drive chain saw. My saw is only a small displacement 16" bar that I think would just frustrate me if I incorporated it into the processor. Given the belt drive, it doesn't seem worthwhile having it hydraulically advanced so maybe I turn the manual 4-way into a hydraulic item like yours. I would be interested in hearing how difficult it was to add the adjustable 4-way to (I am assuming) an I-beam. I was actually condsidering putting two C-channel beams back to back and adding a plate inbetween for the 4-way backer and the cylinder mounting clevis/blade. The c-channel might cost a little more but I would have to pay someone to mod and weld the I-beam. Not sure if material costs are more than labor, maybe I'll talk to the local welder tomorrow.

 

[civilian]

Just some of my thoughts on way wedges. First experience is on a gas/hydraulic wood splitter with a single vertical wedge. To split big pieces, had to let one half drop and split one into quarters and then pick up other half and do the same. Second experience is a single vertical wedge with a horizontal pushed up the vertical by a cylinder. This is on a Dyna firewood processor. When using the 4way wedge on big diameter logs, not bad. But when you split some smaller diameter logs, the 4way did not end up in the middle of the log. But the capablity to raise and lower the horizontal wedge helps, but is sometimes a pain in the butt. So I would consider the typical size logs you are splitting and design your wedge to suit. I buy firewood from a logger that the wood can't be used elsewhere, ie, too crooked for sawmills, too small, etc. Hope this is heplful. Jon

 

[OneUp]

"Not dead yet"
I took the advice of building enough storage to accommodate a current burn season and a seasoning quantity. I now have a platform to season enough wood for a winter plus a little. Not as much fun building that, but yes, necessary. A few weeks ago we had our last snow/wind storm which took the roof off of both platforms so I will need to fix the before proceeding.
Welding of a basic processor frame also started and pretty quickly pointed out my lack of gas welding skills (oxy acetylene), so I "had" to get a stick welder. Not so bad in the garage, under controlled conditions, but outside was humbling. The frame is 2x2 square tubing only b/c I have the tools to work with it. In many places plate would have been better but my saws-all and harbor freight horizontal band saw wouldn't 'cut-it'. It is overkill and damn heavy so I picked up a few old all-metal tractor wheels for the eventual move into place.
Unfortunately I have not made any progress on the plumbing. There will be a crash course in valve selection in the next few weeks.