pennwalk
Veteran Member
John, That Ford has more stitches than Frankenstein.
Now you have scars to match. Nice work. Interesting thread.
Chris
Now you have scars to match. Nice work. Interesting thread.Chris
Fixing Cracks in a Backhoe - Big ! with pics
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Chris, Funny!
Well, sort of. Actually the ford tractor and hoe have conspired to injure me in many ways. Dropped a front hub on my toe and cracked it (the toe). Was wire brushing with a drill and had the cord get wrapped up and twist the drill and one finger around and around. Broke it. Cuts, scrapes and contusions by the score. Not to mention the hot sparkies from the welding that seem to always jump down your shirt or up your sleeve. I must be old school, because it's still fun to me!
jb
Well, sort of. Actually the ford tractor and hoe have conspired to injure me in many ways. Dropped a front hub on my toe and cracked it (the toe). Was wire brushing with a drill and had the cord get wrapped up and twist the drill and one finger around and around. Broke it. Cuts, scrapes and contusions by the score. Not to mention the hot sparkies from the welding that seem to always jump down your shirt or up your sleeve. I must be old school, because it's still fun to me!
jb
sandman2234
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I have a friend who would also bring his backhoe over to fix the ditch, but he lives just south of Shreveport. Diesel is too expensive to move the hoe that far.
Usually an adjustable reamer is only good for a few thousandth's of an inch, and in no way is going to make up for the draw caused by as much welding as he has done on this hoe. I think their is probably a better way, using cutters or boring heads, and then clean the surface up with a reamer.
Getting things to line up perfectly when welding is involved can be tricky, no doubt.
David from jax
Usually an adjustable reamer is only good for a few thousandth's of an inch, and in no way is going to make up for the draw caused by as much welding as he has done on this hoe. I think their is probably a better way, using cutters or boring heads, and then clean the surface up with a reamer.
Getting things to line up perfectly when welding is involved can be tricky, no doubt.
David from jax
3RRL
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Don't knock Frankenstein ...pennwalk said:John, That Ford has more stitches than Frankenstein.
Chris
He's the guy who started the body piercing fad with that giant bolt through his neck.
MikeD74T
Veteran Member
john_bud said:
John, I don't want to enter the up-down arguement just pass along something I was told by a very good welder. I've been welding since 1967, but I'm not a welder. Have earned a living welding full time but it was never my specialty as it is for many. The best welder I ever worked with told me that if you can't weld something uphill then you won't be able to weld it properly downhill. It's about controlling the puddle against gravity. A downhill weld will generally have less penetration and will often look better than it is structurally. He obviously welded in all positions but reserved downhill for pipe & tanks. His opinion there was both were usually overwelded and production was more important than ultimate strength, obviously porosity is unacceptable in either. He was also very particular about too much heat. His welds were like the scales on a fish, a thing of beauty.
A very ambitious project you have there. Looks like it's turning out real nice. MikeD74T
I'll bite,,,,,your friend didn't know what he was talking about. Some of your better uphill welders[pipefitters,boilermakers],can weld down hill to some extent,,but 90 percent of them would not make a pipeline downhill test,,different worlds,,,99 percent [lets just say all],of the gas lines/oil lines,across this world,and yes the usa is part of this world,is welded downhill,,,most of the gas lines anyways carry very high pressure and volume,,and go close to peoples homes,etc,,,,,wouldn't you consider these some of your more critical welds? If a weld breaks in a power plant,,just powerplant workers are in dangered,[excluding 30 percent of the welds,maybe in a nuc plant],,if a gas line weld breaks,,it could kill dozens of innocent people.
There are welds and than there are welds,,most of the bubble gum your average backyard welder puts on,,it don't matter anyways,,,,and there are welders and than there are welders,just like a certified welder,,,it don't mean much,,there are so many different welding processes and postions,,alloys,,pipe verses plate,,you can be certified but not certified for 99 percent of the welding out there,,,,and I give welder certification tests,,also,who is giving the tests will determine who passes tests,every test I give[and pass],I gotta sign my name,,,I'm carefull,some aren't...I could have 80 percent of the backyard welders"certified",,in a day or two,,too a code,with paperwork to back it up,,,course they wouldn't be any better welders,,they would have probably just passed a flat one pass tee test,with one process,,and that and a cup of coffee wouldn't get them a job,,they'd still have to test at their new employer,well,,some of these places????,,,anyways,,
Now,your friend might be a very good welder,don't know,,,but I know one thing,,he's never worked on a pipeline,,,,and there is that my trade is better than your trade thing that happens alot,,,pipeliners,and pipefitters,are two different professions.
Besides,,you are giving me second hand info,,,this he said stuff,,,not much of a way to convince anybody of anything really,,I would never argue a point with somebody over the fact that he said something,,,,WEAK,,,,,,thingy
There are welds and than there are welds,,most of the bubble gum your average backyard welder puts on,,it don't matter anyways,,,,and there are welders and than there are welders,just like a certified welder,,,it don't mean much,,there are so many different welding processes and postions,,alloys,,pipe verses plate,,you can be certified but not certified for 99 percent of the welding out there,,,,and I give welder certification tests,,also,who is giving the tests will determine who passes tests,every test I give[and pass],I gotta sign my name,,,I'm carefull,some aren't...I could have 80 percent of the backyard welders"certified",,in a day or two,,too a code,with paperwork to back it up,,,course they wouldn't be any better welders,,they would have probably just passed a flat one pass tee test,with one process,,and that and a cup of coffee wouldn't get them a job,,they'd still have to test at their new employer,well,,some of these places????,,,anyways,,
Now,your friend might be a very good welder,don't know,,,but I know one thing,,he's never worked on a pipeline,,,,and there is that my trade is better than your trade thing that happens alot,,,pipeliners,and pipefitters,are two different professions.
Besides,,you are giving me second hand info,,,this he said stuff,,,not much of a way to convince anybody of anything really,,I would never argue a point with somebody over the fact that he said something,,,,WEAK,,,,,,thingy
Since I feel in the educating mood today,I'll add one more thing.
Penatration,,,,thats the big thing when somebody wants to argue up verses down,,,well to begin with,there are two different types of penatration,,,what you get into base metal edges,[faces],and the kind that referes to open root pipe [or] plate welding. The goal in welding a full penatration pipe weld,is to make those two pieces one,,,you can achieve this down or up.
Down hill welding is generally limited to thinner pipe,,,,BUT,not for penatration or fusion reasons,,,,you just weld differently down than you do up,,down you put one weave over another,,sometimes capping with a 3/16 rod,most codes say you can't weave more than 3 times rod dia.,,but if you've ever tried to cap a pipe using 3/16 rods,,you'll know you certainlly didn't even want that big a one sometimes,,,remember this is all in postion,its not rolled...,,you are burning hotter than up,,generally carrying less metal,[because you can't],,,you put the root bead in a lot different,,and more,,,up,,you gap the root wider,[generally],,you run smaller rods,less heat,,you stringer beads on on the thicker stuff,or put small weaves side by side,,,most of the stuff in a power plant is welded using some low hydrogen rod,for filler and caps,,you CAN'T down hill 7018-8018-9018 rods,,they just don't work very good down,,,now on pipeline,,you use 6010-7010-8010 rods,,which you can down hill,,,,, different worlds,,but unless you've been in both,,you wouldn't know.
One other thing,most if not all of your high pressure gas lines are 100 percent x-rayed,,so the welders go into most jobs knowing that every weld they make will be x-rayed,,generally 2-3 repairs or cutouts,the welder is down the road,,all pipelines are hydro tested,,,about 1 1/2 times working pressure which is in the thousands psi sometimes,,for 12-24 hours,not all pipeing in a power plant is x-rayed or u.t.ed,,not all pipeing in a power plant is hydroed,,,and as far as how many repairs a pipefitter is allowed before going down the road,,someplaces,,endless,,,,thingy
Penatration,,,,thats the big thing when somebody wants to argue up verses down,,,well to begin with,there are two different types of penatration,,,what you get into base metal edges,[faces],and the kind that referes to open root pipe [or] plate welding. The goal in welding a full penatration pipe weld,is to make those two pieces one,,,you can achieve this down or up.
Down hill welding is generally limited to thinner pipe,,,,BUT,not for penatration or fusion reasons,,,,you just weld differently down than you do up,,down you put one weave over another,,sometimes capping with a 3/16 rod,most codes say you can't weave more than 3 times rod dia.,,but if you've ever tried to cap a pipe using 3/16 rods,,you'll know you certainlly didn't even want that big a one sometimes,,,remember this is all in postion,its not rolled...,,you are burning hotter than up,,generally carrying less metal,[because you can't],,,you put the root bead in a lot different,,and more,,,up,,you gap the root wider,[generally],,you run smaller rods,less heat,,you stringer beads on on the thicker stuff,or put small weaves side by side,,,most of the stuff in a power plant is welded using some low hydrogen rod,for filler and caps,,you CAN'T down hill 7018-8018-9018 rods,,they just don't work very good down,,,now on pipeline,,you use 6010-7010-8010 rods,,which you can down hill,,,,, different worlds,,but unless you've been in both,,you wouldn't know.
One other thing,most if not all of your high pressure gas lines are 100 percent x-rayed,,so the welders go into most jobs knowing that every weld they make will be x-rayed,,generally 2-3 repairs or cutouts,the welder is down the road,,all pipelines are hydro tested,,,about 1 1/2 times working pressure which is in the thousands psi sometimes,,for 12-24 hours,not all pipeing in a power plant is x-rayed or u.t.ed,,not all pipeing in a power plant is hydroed,,,and as far as how many repairs a pipefitter is allowed before going down the road,,someplaces,,endless,,,,thingy
sandman2234 said:
Sandman,
I'm gonna trust you on what tools are able to do what and how much the welding has distorted the metal. That's why I did the repairs first, then took it to the machine shop and showed the boys what all was done to it. Now they have to put in the bushings and pins so that everything lines up with the pieces that they have. I don't have much talent at welding, and none for machining, but I do know that you weld first and machine last!
I would be nice to be experienced with machining, just never got the bug to spend $$ on the equipment and the time to get good.
jb
sandman2234
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john_bud said:
sandman2234 said:
Actually around here there are some good young guys with thier own shops. The guy I have been favoring is about 35 and has been doing it for 10 years, starting with a small set up in his pole barn. Now he has 2 employees (both young guys in thier 20's) and a large shop out in the country. Rates are reasonable and the work is high quality, that's why I drive 40 miles each way when there are other shops closer. It's probably also why there are lots of pieces of equipment in front of the shop waiting to be worked on.
Bushings he has done in the past have been about $20 move than I can buy the bushings alone for. At that rate, it ain't worth messing with.
jb
