Floppy Bucket

Walt P · Jul 10, 2019

Hello,
Long time lurker and new tractor owner here. I purchased a new Massey Ferguson 2605h 2 weeks ago. Love the tractor, except for one thing. The loader suffers from a severe case of floppy bucket. If I go to back drag, set my bucket about 45 degrees from the ground, put the arms into float mode, the bucket just flattens out on the ground. The bucket has about 45 to 50 degrees of free play! If I measure the movement on the cylinders, they move 3" freely. I can purge the air out of the system by putting the joystick in dump mode, the bucket will tilt down, then not move for 7 seconds while air is purged, then the bucket hits the stops. All is well now, until the next time I curl then dump the bucket and we start all over again. My dealer says that this is normal operation, nothing that they can do to correct the issue. I cannot believe that this is normal. Anyone have any ideas where to start to correct the problem?

Sorry for the long post, any help would be appreciated.
Walt.

George2615 · Jul 10, 2019

See other threads (similar) at the bottom of the page. I had the same problem too. Seems to be solved by installing an adjustable restrictor valve in one line.

Walt P · Jul 10, 2019

Thanks for the reply. From what I read on the net, I kinda figured that it would require a restrictor of some sort in the bucket circuit.
That will give me something to do this weekend. Fun........

Walter L · Jul 10, 2019

Walt check out this utube.

Do You Have Floppy Bucket Syndrome? - YouTube

Dave M7040 · Jul 10, 2019

Try swapping the loader arm valve for the bucket valve to see if the problem continues.

A regen feature is becoming common on loader valves.

Regen is a "feature" of most modern FEL (Front End Loader) valves, it's on the Dump (joystick far right) circuit, and is also referred to as "Fast Dump". The reason it is nice to have is that without it, the weight of a filled bucket can actually "pull" the bucket down faster than the fluid can enter the other side of the cylinder, this will create a air pocket and give the bucket a "floppy" feeling until the joystick is held in the dump mode a few seconds to refill the cylinder pushing the air past the seals. So we add "regen" or "regenerative" function to the valve.

Regen solves this problem by actually filling both sides of the cylinder at the same time with hydraulic fluid. But how will that work you might ask? Well, because there is more volume on the side of the cylinder that extends it since the rod is taking up space in the other side, it "overpowers" the rod side and lets the cylinder extend-thereby dumping the bucket. So since now both sides of the cylinder are "pressurized", the air pocket can not develop, eliminating the "floppy" bucket syndrome. One other added bonus is that the bucket actually dumps faster due to the higher flow rate required to do all this, that's why it's referred to as "fast dump" sometimes.

Something to investigate to see if your loader valve has this feature.

Dave M7040

oldnslo · Jul 10, 2019

Dave
Good thought except with regen on lift cylinders he would not be able to lift very much

Walt P
Does your loader have one or two bucket tilt cylinders? On my Branson I have a single cylinder and installed a counterbalance valve to resolve this issue especially when using the forks. More expensive and more difficult to install than a flow control or orifice but requires positive pressure for the cylinder to move under all operating conditions I.e. slow fine movement or full dump speed. So provides superior control with the forks

Dave M7040 · Jul 10, 2019

oldnslo said:
Dave
Good thought except with regen on lift cylinders he would not be able to lift very much

Walt P
Does your loader have one or two bucket tilt cylinders? On my Branson I have a single cylinder and installed a counterbalance valve to resolve this issue especially when using the forks. More expensive and more difficult to install than a flow control or orifice but requires positive pressure for the cylinder to move under all operating conditions I.e. slow fine movement or full dump speed. So provides superior control with the forks

My comments on swapping hoses was only to rule out a valve problem. Once he had done that test reverting to the proper configuration would be in order.

Since his tractor is only two weeks old, I am thinking he likely has the regen feature but may not know how to access it.

Dave M7040

ericm979 · Jul 11, 2019

I put a restrictor on my Branson's BL25 loader. It restricts the flow out of the curl cylinders during dump. It's not a complete fix, at least on my loader. If I adjust it to eliminate all flop it slows dump enough to be noticeable. Sometimes I want the bucket to dump fast enough to shake out material stuck inside. So I usually keep it at a setting where it's reducing flop but not eliminating it, and the bucket still dumps quickly. I installed it in a place where I can reach it from the operators station if I raise the loader some and stand up.

Walt P · Jul 11, 2019

Appreciate all the replies, I'll try to answer in order.

Walt, I watched the video, the way his bucket flops around, is the way mine does, I think mine even more so. I can go thru the steps to clear the air out of the system, and it will work. until the next time I curl the bucket. As soon as I dump the bucket, the issues are reintroduced.

Dave, I did swap the hoses, the bucket still acted the same, but when I lowered the arms, well, the only way I can describe it, the arms seemed to "chatter" on the way down. I lowered them very slowly, put the hoses back and haven't attempted it again. This tractor is a very basic unit, doesn't even have a cup holder. The loader valve does not have a regen detent.

Oldnslo, the tractor does have 2 cylinders on the bucket. The counterbalance valve sounds like something I need to look into, if it will work with 2 cylinders.

Update. The dealer told me that when running the tractor under 1000 RPM's, this behavior is to be expected. Well, I found that engine speed did not make any difference until you're running at 1500 or better. At that point, the problem wasn't solved, it just became erratic. There may be a little less, or a lot less play. Last night, I took a wrench to the connectors on the cylinders for the bucket dump, and found them loose, relatively loose. After tightening them up, the bucket reacts much better. Engine speeds over 1200 RPM's and the bucket is steady. I will check everything down stream of the loader valve this weekend. I think that with a little wrench time and a couple of adjustable flow restrictors, the issue will go from intolerable to slightly annoying. I still think the loader valve is bad or of a poor design, it is very sensitive on the loader arms. If you're not very careful when lowering the arms, they will almost go into free fall. It doesn't take much movement of the joystick. When traveling at anything more than walking speed, hit a bump and the joystick bounces all around, commanding the loader to move every which way. There is no lockout on the loader joystick.

Walt