Fluorescent Bulbs

[Heywood Jannockitov]

We have a CF on our back porch, has started down to -25 F, taks a bit to warm up. Ironically, that particular bulb has lasted three years now without burning out.

We have replaced virtually every bulb in the house and barn with CFs with the exception of some halogen accent lighting in the kitchen and family room. Some are exterior and as Davitk said, they still start in extreme cold, but just take longer to warm up. I've never seen one not start (unless it was burnt out)
.
In the barn, all of the aisle and stall lighting were 100W incandescent.

Now they are 23W CFs. Turning on the barn aisle lights drew 1200 watts. Now it is a little over 250 watts.

I also replaced the two 175W dusk-to-dawn security lights on the barn and arena with 35W HPS, saving 280 watts.

The arena (a white Cover-all) is lit with only 6 400W metal halide fixtures with acrylic domes, which illuminate 360 degrees. At night, it is like being in Homer's Depot.

How long, do you think before we replace all lighting, once again, with ultra bright LED bulbs?

 

[Hakim]

Your right, traffic signals use 130V bulbs, 69 watt bulbs for that matter. Now almost all have or are being replaced with LED. LED can last for 100,000 hours, a real bonus for traffic lights.

RaT,

About everyone here agrees that CF's are great compared to regular light bulbs. But a true revolution will be when LED's take over. My only real experience with LED is my 200 lumen Surefire handheld flashlight, barely larger than a pack of gum. We always keep one in the car. It will temporarily blind someone even during the day. It is so bright as to constitute a handheld weapon.

With LED's all kinds of new types of lighting will open up -- brilliant colors, moving signage and similar lighting that used to cost thousands, will become commonplace and cheap. My guess is it will take about five more years, and the world we see will change dramatically.

 

[Podunkadunk]

RaT,

About everyone here agrees that CF's are great compared to regular light bulbs. But a true revolution will be when LED's take over. My only real experience with LED is my 200 lumen Surefire handheld flashlight, barely larger than a pack of gum. We always keep one in the car. It will temporarily blind someone even during the day. It is so bright as to constitute a handheld weapon. With LED's all kinds of new types of lighting will open up -- brilliant colors, moving signage and similar lighting that used to cost thousands, will become commonplace and cheap. My guess is it will take about five more years, and the world we see will change dramatically.

You've got great taste Hakim...Surefires are the best!

 

[jdbower]

With LED's all kinds of new types of lighting will open up -- brilliant colors, moving signage and similar lighting that used to cost thousands, will become commonplace and cheap. My guess is it will take about five more years, and the world we see will change dramatically.

There's also talk of using imperceptible flickering of LED lamps to provide some level of data transfer or even full networking. Incandescent bulbs just can't power on/off fast enough and fluorescents can't control the flicker well enough. Plus you have really long life and don't have to worry about that pesky mercury disposal issue people seem to forget about...

 

[texasjohn]

Interesting thread... I've tried some CFL's..Probably over 15 in the last 2 years. In summary, my impressions (no scientific written measurements) are:

1) they burn out faster than they should
2) they won't fit into a "fish eye" fixture that is over a fireplace, which is a pain to get to... the neck is insufficiently narrow and long enough, the threads don't reach into the fixture.

I'll look again for some of the sub $1 bulbs.... my recollection is that they are several dollars... yet burn out as soon or sooner than incandescent... a bummer.

 

[zeuspaul]

After reading this thread I thought I was the only one not impressed.

I tried them several years ago and I am now phasing them out.

They don't last very long. If you turn them on and off it significantly reduces the life. Lights in closets and hallways and... are only left on for short periods of time in my house.

It is difficult disposing of them as they have hazardous gas. Don't break them in the house.

Two neighbors complained about the outdoor lights. Letters to the county about dark skies laws. The CF bulbs were 25 watts. I replaced the fixtures/bulbs with incandescent 80 watts and the neighbors are happy. The problem was the white glarelike color, not the amount of light.

I also have two incandescent fixtures with two 25 watt bulbs wired in series. They have been working ten hours per night for six years without replacement. You can't do that with CF bulbs!

My electric bill is less than any of my neighbors including the ones that have switched to CF bulbs.

The new LED lights are supposed to last longer than CF. My coworker bought them as Christmas lights this year. Guess what..some are already burned out!!!

GE has a new incandescent that uses 30%?? less juice. I don't know when they will be released.

I use light bulbs to take the edge off the cold in the winter in lieu of the furnace. Efficiency is only an issue if you don't make use of the waste heat.

Zeuspaul

 

[Highbeam]

I would be careful about changing out high efficiency floursescent tube lighting to CFLs. I had thought that the watts per lumen of tube lights were fairly good. I've recently installed some T5 electronic ballasts and the ballasts are not cold sensitive and totally silent.

 

[dmccarty]

Regarding the life of the CFIs. As I said the ones we have been buying at Lowes just at not living long. Some last but some are dying quickly. Lowes is close to the house there is no HD within 30 minutes.

When we built the house we bought quite from HD since they where near our city house. I THINK we bought Philips CFIs but I'm not sure. This was at the end of 2004. MOST of these bulbs are still in service in the 85 recessed cans and another 13 or so other fixtures. So that is three good years before we started replacing CFIs.

We had non CFIs in the old house that I replaced every 6-8 weeks.

We have some small tube flourescants that are in task lights under the kitchen cabinets that have been on 24x7x365 since 2005. The only time they have been turned off is by my parents and when we lost power a few times. Got our money out of those bulbs.

Our CFIs are R30 or R40 to fit the cans.

Later,
Dan

 

[MossRoad]

I just replaced the 40W incandescent in the can light over our kitchen sink with a 13W CF. I turned it on and it was a nice, soft glow, very similar to the 40W that was in there. Then I left the room and came back a few minutes later.... YIKES!!! Bright white blazing light. Reading the package, the 13W CF had the light output of a 60W incandescent. But it is a harsh, white light, not a soft glow, for sure. I also replaced three 40W incandescent can lights in the basement with three 13W CFs. Same deal after about 2 minutes the harsh blazing light is there. All of the other incadescents in our house are on dimmers. 11 in the living room, 5 in the dining room, 4 in the kitchen, all the bedrooms, etc... are all dimmable. About 26 bulbs in all. I have them automated for on/off dimming at certain times of the day. Regular CFLs will not work with the dimmers. The best price I found on dimmable fluorescents were about 10 bucks a pop. So $260 bucks to replace all of them. I don't think I would see much in energy savings payback to cover the cost. I think I've only replaced a half a dozen light bulbs in my entire house in 10 years. We just don't use them that much. With the exception of the bathroom and dressing area outside the bathroom in the mornings, we rarely use that many lights. And those are decorative fixtures that take flame tip bulbs and the curly fluorescent bulbs would look really tacky in there. I'm waiting for LED bulbs to become more popular as they will be dimmable and last even longer than the CFLs.

I do not like the color of the light that the CFLs give off. It is too harsh. And, after I spend time in a room with them on for a while, and I go to a dim room, I can see flickering in my vision. That bugs me.

One place that I would like to use CFLs is in the garages and the porches. They would last forever, for sure. But the CFLs will not come on in the garages or porches in the winter time due to the cold temps. So, they have not yet reached the practicallity level for us.

 

[Blackbird_BX]

Except for the dining room light on a dimmer, motion detector on the garage and closets, all the lighting in and around our house is fluorescent.

I've found warm up times vary quite a bit between brands and designs. The ones on the front porch are really slow to warm up in cold weather, but the newer ones on the back porch are almost fully bright at startup. Had one in my old kitchen that took a couple minutes to reach full brightness no matter what the temp.

I got a nice feeling when I replaced the four sixty watt floods in the kitchen with 15 watt fluorescents. With sixty watts total, it's no big deal if somebody leaves them on accidentally. I didn't notice any difference in the quality of the light before and after other than the fluorescents being a tad brighter. I only can see the coils in these when they are off, and just barely.

I'm starting to use some LED lights now. I picked up a half dozen LED automatic night lights at Walmart last year and stuck them all around the house so you can find your way around the house at night without turning on a room light. All of them combined draw less than two watts. I also picked up a handful of Sylvania combination night light/emergency light/flashlights at Sam's Club that I've put in key places in the house in case of a power outage. Much whiter light from these, but they do draw all of 0.8 watts. . They are handy little 3 LED flashlights as well. Since they light up in the dark, there's never a problem finding one. I've looked into LED lamps that be used in place of compact fluorescents, but they are still way to expensive for my budget and white LEDs are not that much more efficient than CFLs yet. Can't beat them for lamp life though, 37 years at 4 hours a day.

 

[dooleysm]

Everything I've read points to incandescents being on the way out. I believe the EU has outlawed them and I wouldn't be surprised if you have a hard time finding them in the US within the next 5 years. Walmart is very much behind CF's, and that's going to do more than anything to drive down the cost of CF's and kill incandescents.

The different 'color' of light, slow startup times, varying lifespans, etc. that we are talking about here are minor points when compared to the huge energy savings.

Of course, I may be wrong, and it surely wouldn't be the first time.

 

[sseelhoff]

Everything I've read points to incandescents being on the way out. I believe the EU has outlawed them and I wouldn't be surprised if you have a hard time finding them in the US within the next 5 years. Walmart is very much behind CF's, and that's going to do more than anything to drive down the cost of CF's and kill incandescents.

The different 'color' of light, slow startup times, varying lifespans, etc. that we are talking about here are minor points when compared to the huge energy savings.

Of course, I may be wrong, and it surely wouldn't be the first time.

Actually, you're probably right about the future of incandescent bulbs. I just read a few months ago that either the State of California, or several cities in California, were considering legislation similar to the EU that would ban the use of incandescents and require all to be replaced with CFLs in the next two years. We will probably see more of that kind of legislation as the idea takes hold.

 

[Bird]

Everything I've read points to incandescents being on the way out. I believe the EU has outlawed them and I wouldn't be surprised if you have a hard time finding them in the US within the next 5 years.

I was told by a fellow who ought to know (although I can't say for sure he does) that the incandescents will no longer be made after 2012, and that's only 4 years, so you're probably right.

 

[MossRoad]

The different 'color' of light, slow startup times, varying lifespans, etc. that we are talking about here are minor points when compared to the huge energy savings.

Minor to you, but not to me. My home currently has a very nice warm glow to it. I don't like the white light at all and fluorescent light really does bother my eyes, especially when watching a movie or visiting with friends. It is more like an interrogation room than a living room.

Does anyone know of a brand or type of CFL with a nice glow that isn't so industrial looking?

 

[MossRoad]

I better start stocking up... I'll store them with my hi-flow shower heads and large flush toilets... in the space I cleared out after I went through my Y2K stash!

But seriously, I am not against using CFLs. They make plenty of sense regarding energy usage. I had three 40W bulbs replaced with three 13W CFLs that were equivilant to 65W light output. That was a 120W for 39W swap with an increase in lighting by more than 50%. Great deal, just ugly light.

So, any of you have decorative lighting in your dining room or bath that use candle tip bulbs? What are we going to use when the incandescents for those are gone? They are going to be U-G-L-Y for sure.

 

[zeuspaul]

I believe the feds have passed legislation phasing out incandescents. They start with 100 watt bulbs and work their way down to 40 watt bulbs. It was unclear to me if they go lower than that.

I don't think Calif law is specific yet but may be superceded by Federal law.

I am stocking up. My incandescent energy use is lower than most with CF bulbs because my lights are off most of the time.

If the government FORCES me to use CF bulbs I'll leave them on all the time

Zeuspaul

 

[Bird]

So, any of you have decorative lighting in your dining room or bath that use candle tip bulbs? What are we going to use when the incandescents for those are gone? They are going to be U-G-L-Y for sure.

David, I don't know about "ugly" yet, but I, too, have wondered what kinds of new bulbs they'll come up with. One of our bathrooms has 6 of the bulbs with the little base, the fixure over the dining table also has 6, shaped differently, and two of our four ceiling fans have three bulbs each of what the manual calls "candelabra base incandescent B-10 light bulbs". I think (but ain't sure) that all 18 have the same base, but I know I've got 3 different shaped bulbs.

 

[sseelhoff]

I believe the feds have passed legislation phasing out incandescents. They start with 100 watt bulbs and work their way down to 40 watt bulbs. It was unclear to me if they go lower than that.

I don't think Calif law is specific yet but may be superceded by Federal law.

I am stocking up. My incandescent energy use is lower than most with CF bulbs because my lights are off most of the time.

If the government FORCES me to use CF bulbs I'll leave them on all the time

Zeuspaul

Here's the link to the California story. It is a legislative attempt to ban incandescents state wide.

ABC News: Legislator Wants Green Lights in California

 

[Mike058]

Minor to you, but not to me. My home currently has a very nice warm glow to it. I don't like the white light at all and fluorescent light really does bother my eyes, especially when watching a movie or visiting with friends. It is more like an interrogation room than a living room.

Does anyone know of a brand or type of CFL with a nice glow that isn't so industrial looking?

I saw an article in a magazine where several brands were tested for color, brightness and just subjective "feel". Unfortunately, I don't remember what magazine it was. But the good news is that not all CF are the same. Some are much more tolerable than others. We're just going to have to try some different brands out and see what's the least annoying I guess. I'm not too tickled about having to live by fluorescent light either.

In a couple of years I'll be having this conversation with the border guard coming back from Canada.

"Tell me sir, you wouldn't have any incandescent bulbs in that trailer of yours, would you?.

"No sir, just marijuana.

"All right then, have a nice day.

 

[ultrarunner]

GE makes dimmable Fluorescent Spots for ceiling can fixtures to replace incandescents... I buy them through Grainger for the Hospital.

Floursesents have phenomenal life when they are turned on and left on. I mentioned in an earlier post that I have some T8 Fluorescents that are going strong after 10 years of continuously being on (The Fixtures do not have off switches) I know the lumens decrease over time, but they are still adequate.

I also have applications where the lamps are turned on and off many times each day (Not my idea) and the T8's last about 3 to 4 months...