Food Plots

[mtsman]

Marty / all:

I wish to start a 2-3 acre foodplot for whitetails and other game. I have been preparing equipment and researching best planting practices. I have been given a lot of different advice. It has all been very helpful.

I bought seed through Ernst seed in Meadville, PA. 3 different seed mixes ( deer & turkey clover mix, big buck mix, upland forage & cover mix). Marty, your recommended field preparation procedure is almost the same procedure they recommended. They said it is important to remove the weeds in order for the patch to take hold. They also said tilling the weeds under will work but chemicals work better. This brings me to Q1.

A tributary of a Class A wild trout stream runs along the field I wish to plant. I am very hesitant to use Round-up because of the potential for runoff into the tributary. The seed company says they use a version of Round-up called Rodeo in wetland reclamations all the time. It has no surfactant and is short duration. Have you/anyone used this? Opinions?

Q2.

Soil sample. Who will analyze? Local Agway?

Could I just call the local Ag office and ask what minerals deficiencies are in the local soil?

 

[Thomas]

There a gentlman right here on TBN that could shed some light.. Robert..NY..check out his profile.

 

[TerryinMD]

I can't help you with the seed mixes or herbicides. However, as far as soil samples, I would definately call the state/county extension office. They should also be able to help you with your questions about herbicides and their use.

Hope this helps.

Terry

 

[Robert_in_NY]

If you till the ground do a good job of it wait a while after the intial till and till it again to keep anything from trying to regrow. We turned over a field last spring and disked it down every couple weeks to keep any weeds from regrowing, this spring it will be planted with a Strut and Rut misture for deer and turkeys we get thru the National Wild Turkey Federation. The field we are planting this spring is 5 acres and we have 15 acres more to do that was old grape land that re reclaimed. The ag office will not know what is missing in your soil until you get the test done. Agway should be able to help you or at least point you in the right direction. We have our test done thru a local farm store and he sends them to a lab in Canada to be done. In most places you will need lime and lots of it to help build the ground back up. We have done no-till planting in some of our active pens and the clover does well but we have to mow the fields to keep the weeds down and let the clover have a chance. I have never sprayed a field so I can not comment on how it works but if you can till the plot and keep tilling it every couple weeks for about 1 month it should remove about 95% of the weeds. It is a lot of work but it does work. As you probally know animals need protein, we run our feed for our captive whitetails at 18% protein and plant a mixture of clovers, ryegrass, alfalfa, trefoil and some Dwarf essex rape. We have had good luck with antler growth in pens we have planted while pens we have to do still the bucks antlers do not grow nowhere near as well as we expected them to. We have to work the last few pens this spring. When you have the soil test done agway should be able to mix a fertilizer to help build up all your deficient areas and they will also be helpful if you have any particular questions. If you have any other questions please ask as I have tried to answer what I could and hope I didn't miss anything. Take care.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

mtsman,
Roundup is the least hazardous of the commonly used herbicides. It's chemical makeup causes it to bind tightly to soil particles, therefore there is no runoff . It is bound so tightly that even plants cannot uptake the Roundup from the soil, only from foliage. Just use the instructions on the label and common sense.
Happy Tractorin"
Greg H

 

[IllMarty]

Mtsman,
Lots of good advice here. I agree about the Roundup being pretty benign in soils. Two years ago I sprayed R-up on saturday on an area that had been tilled and weeds were 4-6 " tall and spread my seed on sunday just before the rain. Worked great.

Have not used Rodeo. I imagine it is a R-up knock off.

I would take samples to Ag. Extension agent or equivalent. pH is most important. Marty

 

[DavidInNH]

About 20 years ago, someone told me that Roundup is only absorbed by (green) foliage and it deactivates after a few hours in the sun light. He was managing all the grounds at Johnson Space Center at the time (about 1600 acres IIRC).

Its safe to use for killing grassy/weeds around the base of trees since it isn't absorbed through the wood. Its safe to use to kill the grass in the gaps of sidewalks as long as it doesn't rain within a couple of hours of application.

-david

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not sure if roundup has different formulations.. but as a road contractor, we contract with the city and county to do roadside maintenance.. and one of those duties is to spray the shoulders to prevent grass growing up through the asphalt. There must be some residual effects, or it would not work. That said.. however.. I'm sure the comercial concentrate we buy is not the same you find on the shelf in kmart.. etc.

Soundguy

"About 20 years ago, someone told me that Roundup is only absorbed by (green) foliage and it deactivates after a few hours in the sun light. He was managing all the grounds at Johnson Space Center at the time (about 1600 acres IIRC)."

 

[rdln]

Thats the problem with round-up on large areas, farmer concentrate uses around a pint per acre maybe, at maybe $3/pint, whereas it will take a gallon of consumer round-up to do 20,000sq ft at $40. I don't remember the exact figures from when I did a quick comparison a few years ago but there is a big difference.

Personally, I dont care about weeds when I plant food plots the intended crop always takes over and shades out most weeds. It's not like you'll have to sell the farm if you get 75% less yield by just sticking a seed in the ground and letting mother nature take over.

 

[Soundguy]

Agreed... Our tractor tank and sprayer used a quart of concentrate mix at a time, into the sprayer tank.... thick stuff, like honey.

Soundguy

"Thats the problem with round-up on large areas, farmer concentrate uses around a pint per acre maybe, at maybe $3/pint, whereas it will take a gallon of consumer round-up to do 20,000sq ft at $40. I don't remember the exact figures from when I did a quick comparison a few years ago but there is a big difference.

"Personally, I dont care about weeds when I plant food plots the intended crop always takes over and shades out most weeds. It's not like you'll have to sell the farm if you get 75% less yield by just sticking a seed in the ground and letting mother nature take over. "

 

[rdln]

Did I really say 75% less yield? I don't think it is that bad, more like 25% less but enough to make the difference between a farmer making a profit or breaking even over hundreds of acres.

 

[mtsman]

IllMarty / Robert in NY / all,

Thanks. Yes,...there is a lot of good advice here. I've been able to find Rodeo at the 41% concentrate (same as super concentrate Roundup) but the smallest container anyone will sell is 2.5 gallon at $270.00. When you look at cost per Quart it is slightly less than the similar strength Round-up, but I would only need 2 quarts and the other 8 would be taking up space in the shed. Based on TBN'ers advice and $ I chose to use Round-up and will wait for a dry spell to use it properly.

After a few calls and all of your advice I found out the local ag offices sell a $6.00 soil test kit for which I take soil aliquots, mix them, answer some specific questions about the sample area and send them off to Penn State. I did this and I am sending it to Penn State today. I bet I will have questions on the interpretation of the test results.

Yes, I could just throw some seeds out and tolerate a low yield but then I would be saying I could have tried this and done that, etc. I have tried some other very small patches of planting in this area using that method without much success. Finally, since I've found out clover is "fragile" when small and weeds will dominate it until year 2 I want to do it right the first time.

 

[mtsman]

Steve,

I would like to buy concentrate round-up at $3.00 per quart.

What is the strength of that farmer concentrate solution?

I bought the "ultra strength" concentrate for under $40 per quart. (Without looking at the label or getting into chemistry I think it said 50% chemical and 50% diluent)

Is there something I am missing here?

 

[rdln]

What is the coverage say on your container?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I found Round up at Lowes in a 2.5 gal container for $109. it is 41%. I know $109 doesn't sound cheap, but compare that to the per quart cost ($35-$40) and you save a bundle.

 

[fractal]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

After a few calls and all of your advice I found out the local ag offices sell a $6.00 soil test kit for which I take soil aliquots, mix them, answer some specific questions about the sample area and send them off to Penn State. I did this and I am sending it to Penn State today. I bet I will have questions on the interpretation of the test results.

<hr></blockquote>


I hope you got more instructions than I did first time I did a soil test (wrong). Noone told me to wash real good (sterilize) both my bucket and my shovel, to take samples from multiple places in the field following a 'z' pattern, to dig a hole, then dig a "slice" off the edge of the hole and take a handful of the soil at the root depth and toss it in the bucket at each hole, to mix the soil in the bucket, then fill the sample bag with some of what you mixed up in the bucket. I didn't do too bad but wished I had read the instructions BEFORE I paid (a lot more than you did) for my garden test.

Also, you might be interested that labs sell different analysis packages. Your basic 10 dollar package will tell you npk. A 20 dollar package will tell you npk and traces. There are packages even more complete than that. You can check out http://ag.mdsharris.com/ (the folk who my local ag store uses) for a list of the products they offer to retailers or large commercial folk. I too don't fully understand all the stuff on the report but they guy at the store translated it all to me as "add 30 pounds of soil sulfur the the 1600 sq ft plot to drop the ph to 6.5" and proceeded to sell me a 50 pound bag of sulfur.

Good luck on your plot.

 

[oombala]

ive used rodeo, very pricey. i called the company and he told me the surfactant was like a dish soap, made bubbles in the water at times so they took it out and uped the price. i had a quart of rodeo cost me $40.00 in an acre pond the guy said i coul dump it all in at once and not hurt my fish. i was only interested in killing weeds growing in my rip rap

 

[oombala]

after you plant it, make a rabbit wire mesh cage open on top, flip it over andsecure it lightly maybe tent stake or rock. make it about 2-3 feet square. the purpose of it is, to compare how tall it is and thick w/the rest of the plot. you can then tell how much usage it id getting from the animals....... people at white tail clover told me that they have free videos of how to do it. or did have, look in the deer hunting magzines for there info. they also have a no till variety.

 

[MODEERE]

I don't think you want to dump rodeo in a pond, it is to be sprayed on the surface of the weeds in and around water and will do a fine job. If you do not have a label go to www.cdms.com to get a copy. Rodeo and Roundup are sister chemicals with the Rodeo having a aquatic label. For home owners one of the best ways to buy Roundup is a the product Roundup Pro Dry it is alot cheaper and more user friendly than the liquid Roundup's, a case will have 30 packets of a dry Roundup with a use rate of 1packet per gallon of water, doesn't spill if knocked over and doesn't freeze