Footings for Landscape Wall

rambler · May 11, 2004

I guess if you build a 24' slab then it will float ok, but if you build a 24' ring I don't see that holding up well enough to winter, it will crack. I suppose the whole slab or the ring with a full footer is about the same cost, eh? I'm not clear on how you plan it exactly, just a ring or a full slab. Most slabs have a 'rat wall' on the outside anyhow, or 1/2 a frost footer.

Sure would be a good place to forget the concrete entirely & use the blocks that interlock, they move a bit with the frost & work well.....

--->Paul

RalphVa · May 11, 2004

I've built 2 landscape walls, both about 2 pallets worth, here in central Va and in Baton Rouge. I only put in a base of about 1-2" of small pebbles and used those interlocking, mortarless blocks available at Lowes and Home Depot. They can be built in a circle, straight line or undulated line. The main thing is to kinda get them level from front-back. Side-to-side can go up and down a bit to follow ground contours. The interlocking tab on the back will cause the wall to lean about 1/2" per block as you go up the wall.

The walls I've built are around 2' tall. A developer just built a HUGE wall of them at the entrance to his new condos on route 20 coming into Charlottesville from the south. The north wall on the Lowes complex north of Charlottesville is built out of them. That wall is terraced. Each section is about 7'.

I've seen them used to build walls around highway overpasses. They generally cap them with a thick concrete top, probably to keep people from stealing them.

Ralph

SPIKER · May 11, 2004

I would go with the landscape blocks like others are saying, and NOT use any mortor in between, let the water run out and it will stay as well or better than the brick & mortor.

just my 2 cents worth, our local HD has them on sale for 1.59 or something like that each.

mark m /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

AndyM · May 11, 2004

just my 2 cents worth, our local HD has them on sale for 1.59 or something like that each. 

Our Home Depot has them for $1.79.
A couple of Saturdays ago, they had them for $1.19 during a one day sale. I'm watching for that again, so I can buy a couple of pallets of them. A 60 cent savings adds up really quick!!!

ronjhall · May 12, 2004

Rob
I put in about 200' of Garden Wall last summer. The process is much easier than a brick wall. No mortar is needed.

When I moved into my home the previous owner had built a flower box out of bricks and mortar. Even though it had good drainage the bricks and mortar were breaking apart from Michigan's winter frost. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I tore all the bricks out and put in Railroad Ties. Last summer I removed the Ties and installed the Garden Wall. Some areas of the wall are 24" high. I used the glue that is recommended by the Garden Wall manufactures.
Here is a picture that I posted on another thread. Click Here
Home Depot sells the 12” garden wall blocks for 1.49 in SE Michigan.
I found a local landscape supply for $1.00 each. It pays to shop around. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I used some of the savings to have the blocks delivered. Each skid of 128 weighs about 3300 pounds. Delivery was $65 for 3 skids.

RobS · May 12, 2004

Thanks all for the input. I have built with the landscape blocks (Menards, $1.22. I bought 864 of the things this spring). They are easy to use and I like them for less formal areas. For our patio and the circle drive we are going for a very formal look, thus the mortared brick which will match the porch piers and the chimney. I'm pretty well convinced now to put my footers down below frost, it only adds about $200 in cement block and mortar (plus who knows yet how much of my time). This circular wall will be two wythes thick with a soldier course at the top and will have rebar in it. And yes, I'm planning on pre-running electric and water for the future fountain. I'll just have to use my backhoe that much more to get the footing in, darn that seat time. Thanks again for helping my brain get through this /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

timb · May 13, 2004

What about using concrete pilings (sonotube) set below your frost line and stationed around your circle (maybe every 45 degrees?) with a 'footing' poured as a grade beam sitting on the pilings?

Had a similar project idea that never went anywhere for other reasons but that was one solution I had considered.

Tim

RobS · May 13, 2004

Aack, Tim you're making me think too hard on this /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

The sonotubes are an interesting idea, hmmm I could justify a post hole digger?

Had a discussion with the wife last night on summer schedule and project plans. Basically, our summer is filling up fast so I need to quickly get out of the planning phase and into the doing phase on this and the patio. I know once I get started things will just clip right along. As we say here at work... "It's time to shoot the engineer and put it into production" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Junkman · May 13, 2004

( What about using concrete pilings (sonotube) set below your frost line and stationed around your circle (maybe every 45 degrees?) with a 'footing' poured as a grade beam sitting on the pilings?

Had a similar project idea that never went anywhere for other reasons but that was one solution I had considered.

Tim )

I don't believe that this will work out because the attachment to the tubes isn't going to be that strong and the "ring" will just crack. Frost comes up from the bottom and lifts. The reason for the footing and the wall is that the frost can't grab hold of it and lift it. I had a large boulder, about 3' x 4' x4' heave under my driveway this past winter. The only thing that I can figure is that it has been moving up each year for the past 15 years. When we prepped for the driveway, we removed everything down 18" and filled with process gravel. It wasn't seen then, but it did break through the pavement this winter by forming a crown in the driveway. It is the power of frost that breaks ever thing.

timb · May 13, 2004

I think that there would have to be a sand/gravel bed under the grade beam/ring. I have seen this type of foundation construction shown for more normally shaped structures, but you may need more 'pilings' than are worthwhile to support the ring adequately.

On the other hand if you had a way to shape heavier rebar I'll bet you could theoretically create a strong enough ring that it would simply not likely break all by itself , it would only move enmass - but that again is probably more fuss than simply doing a normal continuous (and lighter duty) footer below the frostline.

Tim