Ford 1500 Fuel injection Pump, timing or other isue?

[Temblor]

Well Timing marks may NOT be the issue on the pump gear. As it can rotate to 3 different locations and you can actually scribe a new timing mark on the the pump gear and coupling
(per manual) if it does not match up to original marks.

So the best guess now.. is the problem could be with the SD1800 model Hydraulic pump that was installed, on my SD1840 tractor, because it has a different plunger assembly.
So I am going to have the Original pump looked at more closely at an Injector shop.. then hopefully re-installing and re-do the Spill Timing will remedy the problem?

 

[JReid]

I think I'd be checking the injectors while you're checking things. If it's putting out blue smoke it could mean that they were not set right. Also if the engine has been rebuilt and doesn't have the correct compression it can blow blue smoke as well. As for the engine dying, is there a fuel lift pump on there somewhere that may be bad? Pump timing shouldn't be that much of a problem unless it's way off. On one tractor it somehow slipped about 6 or 7 degrees retarded and I really couldn't tell a whole lot of difference. Actually now it's running at 8 degrees advanced (on purpose with some engineering) and the only difference is that it idles real loose sounding. I would lean towards something maybe with the injectors since using another pump does nearly the same thing. You can get an injector tester from amazon that works pretty good instead of paying someone $$$ to test the injectors. Just be careful of the fuel that comes out - it is under extreme presure!

 

[Temblor]

I think I'd be checking the injectors while you're checking things. If it's putting out blue smoke it could mean that they were not set right. Also if the engine has been rebuilt and doesn't have the correct compression it can blow blue smoke as well. As for the engine dying, is there a fuel lift pump on there somewhere that may be bad? Pump timing shouldn't be that much of a problem unless it's way off. On one tractor it somehow slipped about 6 or 7 degrees retarded and I really couldn't tell a whole lot of difference. Actually now it's running at 8 degrees advanced (on purpose with some engineering) and the only difference is that it idles real loose sounding. I would lean towards something maybe with the injectors since using another pump does nearly the same thing. You can get an injector tester from amazon that works pretty good instead of paying someone $$$ to test the injectors. Just be careful of the fuel that comes out - it is under extreme presure!

Thanks for any and all suggestions, turns out I finally SOLVED the issue. Turns out the previous owner mechanic either did did not install the original pump correctly (OR, I found a vapor hose, where there should have been a fuel injection hose?) after rebuilding engine.
So they ordered a rebuilt or "used" pump thinking the original was defective. They did NOT install 2nd Fuel Injection Pump correctly.

I decided to reinstall the original pump (4 wheel drive and 2 wheel drive tractors have slightly different plunger assemblies in pump, it is unknown whether this will cause significant issues)

The tricky part NOT INCLUDED in the service manual on the Ford 1500 (Shibaura SD1840) is that the pump shaft will "spin" down when you remove the pump.
When reinstalling, (assuming you followed the manual and previously set gears at valve timing marks and then rotated engine counter clockwise to "Pump timing" marks correctly) there is a small indentation in pump gear coupling (Hub) You have to use a screwdriver in this indentation and rotate the coupling (Hub) counterclockwise, to line up the factory marks on gear & coupling at about 12 oclock. You have to rotate SLOW to find the small flat spot, otherwise it will "spin" back down. Once you find that small flat spot it will stay and you can tighten the gear bolts in the slotted gear.
I also had to re adjust the governor adjustment bolt on top of pump, as the previous owner & mechanic must have tried adjusting in their mis-diagnosis of problem; before they attempted to replace this pump.
Rick at Seattle Injector service helped me out with some good advice with this pump, took a quick look at it, operating the cam, looking at the piston spring action (Under Side cover) and told me the original pump appeared A-OK and he was right. (We did not hook up to machine or calibrate which would have cost $200-$300)
GOOD NEWS is that this tractor now runs great! No longer blows blue smoke either. Hope this helps someone in future.. let me know..
looks like I have an extra Fuel Injection pump for sale.. off of a Shibaura SD1800 (2 wheel drive) It MIGHT work on a Ford 1500 or Shibaura SD1840 <4 wheel drive> as well?

 

[JReid]

Wow that sounds quite complicated. Glad you got it working though!

 

[Temblor]

This picture was incorrect timing, I just wanted to show the "slot" (arrow pointing to) used to rotate the coupling (hub) (Which is a step NOT contained in the factory manual) to the correct position when re installing pump and setting pump timing.

 

[TractorBee]

Did you ever get this figured out? I am in a similar situation and curious to know the outcome of yours.

 

[JC-jetro]

Tmblor,

wow, what a nice write up. I just got to see the this thread. You have done well, I could have offered a few tid bits but you got them all and then some. I will have to re-read again or remember your thread. My tractor runs great and I do all the maintenance to the best of my ability to avoid issues like that. My suggestion is that you put fresh new oil in your injector pump after all the great work you have done. It take 2 oz of your engine oil and you do have drain and level plug on your injector pump. I am sure you have put witness mark where needed. There are 3 nuts on injector gears that help with injector timing. I hope you left witness mark for future reference. I have put a witness mark on my pump and timing cover for future reference but avoided dorking with it as it works quite well. Like you found out, the key to a good prognosis is always good diagnosis. Thanks for the good write up.
JC,

 

[Smiggen]

I just purchased a Ford 1500 (Shibaura SD1840) and I was given a Ford 1500 manual with it.. the owner told me it was the same tractor.
View attachment 473116

The previous owner said tractor would not start and he noticed the water separator was half filled with water, so he thought that the fuel pump might be contaminated with water (and rusted).. so he installed a rebuilt (supposedly) Fuel pump ($700) had the Head resurfaced, a couple new valves (?) 2 injectors, When finished with the work the tractor started, but it ran poorly & did not have power to operate attachments.

This is what I have done so far: Replaced fuel lines, cleaned tank, removed cleaned fuel filter
The tractor starts after cranking on it 60-90 seconds (blue smoke from exhaust as cranking)
BUT it will only run for about a minute or two then it slowly dies! (blue smoke while running. Checked engine compression at glow plugs, have 350lbs & 340 lbs)
If I let it sit a few minutes it will start again only to slowly die again.

I have replaced fuel lines, bypassed tank & Fuel filter, ran fuel directly from jar of diesel to pump and still the same results.
Have talked to a lot of fuel injection rebuild shops..

Next test, I will hook up a 5-9 LB universal inline fuel injection pump, after the fuel filter.
also going to take spring and valve piston from the "delivery valve holder" (on top of pump) turn engine to top dead center and see if fuel gravity flows from pump holder.
(trying to determine easiest way of finding top dead center?)


I also wonder if it was the correct pump replaced as the numbers on pump are different from the original?
Here is a pic of two pumps in case anyone has knowledge or could find out if these pumps are identical?
Problem is if I bring tractor to shop and have them pull pump it will cost at least $700-$800 just to diagnose, get pump off, and then have tested to see it if it is pumping proper volumes, then reinstall.
But an interesting fact, NO test will reveal if the pump is sucking air or not, they just volumes.

Another observation, there is no fuel coming through return hose (from injector to fuel tank)


View attachment 473112 View attachment 473114 View attachment 473115
(The 3rd picture which has clear manufacture red logo on the plate is the original pump (which previous owner said could still be good?)
The pump with the worn metal & no red paint is the replacement from Tractor salvage yard)

So I guess my questions for are:
#1 what is easiest method of finding top dead center on this tractor with valve cover removed?
#2 Does anyone have access to info on these pumps to find out if they are indeed the same?
Thanks

My 1500 would not run very long. Turns out it had the wrong fuel cap. The cap fit so tight that air could not get into the tank to let the fuel flow. I loosened the cap half a turn to let air in and it runs great