ford 1700

[Soundguy]

Need some advice here. I just located a used tractor 'dealer' from an add in the local newspaper. Talked with him on the phone a few times, and he seemed straight up. I went out to see his tractors today, and for the most part, they were as advertised. A few yanmars, a kubota, and a ford 1700. All the machines obviously had new paint,and decals, and tires, all looked to have new starters and alternators, as well as new oil air and fuel filters. ( the air and oil filters all were in jap writing ).

The replacement alternator on the ford 1700 'looked' to me as if it was japaneese. no biggie.. doesn't prove anything. Also, on that model, the seril number plate was missing. Was a 2 cyl just likes 1700 specs showed.. but I noticed that it had a 3 speed pto.. I don't recall the ford 1700 having a 3 speed pto. After leaving, i started thinking... could this be another tractor, and not a real ford 1700.... Did shibaru make similar model tractors that could be passed off as a ford ?Iseki?, with the removal on a sernumber here, and a few decals there?

He was kinda 'sketchy' on where he got his units, but aluded to the fact that they were remanned and imported from another country.

On the flip side, all the units looked good, had no leaks, and sounded good. I drove everyhting on the lot. Looked like new seals and bearings, for things like the pto , etc.

My overall opinion, is that this isn't a ford ( but looks like a nice tractor anyway ).. I asked about parts, and he said that he could get them for me cheaper than the factory 9 new holland )... again makes me think that this is not a standard ford, and he is trying to cover that fact by supplying me with parts.

Any ideas? I looked it over real good. If anyone has any ideas or things to remember to help me identify if this is really a ford, I would appreciate it.

Soundguy

 

[JohnMiller3]

TRACTORS from FORD
Model = 1700 4WD

SPECIFICATIONS
Years Mfg: 1979-1983
Fuel: D

Engine Make: SHIBURA 2-CYL

CID: 77.6

Engine HP: 23.26 PTO
25-E
Cab: NA

No.Speeds: 12/4

Weight(Pounds): 2,615

List Price: $8,350

PRICING
Year Ad Price Est.Loan Value
1979 $5,459 $3,603
1980 $5,686 $3,753
1981 $5,942 $3,922
1982 $6,235 $4,115

Auction Results

FORD 1700 $2,300.
Condition: G Auction Date: 10272201 FAIRFIELD
Comments: D 2392HRS

FORD 1700 $2,700.
Condition: P Auction Date: 10132001 NEW PRAGUE
Comments: D 4X4

FORD 1700 $3,075.
Condition: F Auction Date: 04292002 STRAWBERRY PT
Comments:

FORD 1700 $3,300.
Condition: G Auction Date: 03052002 GOLDSBORO
Comments: D 2039HRS

FORD 1700 $3,500.
Condition: G Auction Date: 01072002 SIKESTON
Comments: D 4WD

FORD 1700 $4,800.
Condition: G Auction Date: 07132001 STRAWBERRY POINT
Comments: G

FORD 1700 $5,250.
Condition: G Auction Date: 02092002 NEW PRAGUE
Comments: D LDR
~~~~

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks for the reply info. This unit 'looks' more or less identical to the one I looked at, save the front tires, which were new ags.

Still wondering about that pto speed issue. The castings on the front axle looked similar to my nh 1920.. I soppose it may be the real thing.

He had 4950 on it, but could be talked to 3800 cash, and no delivery. Guess that looks high compared to the auction results.

Again, thanks for the info!

Soundguy

 

[knucklehead]

Here's a few photos of my '79 - let me run down back and look at my accessories, and I'll tell you what I have - maybe it's no big deal. Mahindra has the old IH 4xx series design from the 70's, and the IH guys I've read on other forums seem happy to get quality Mahindra parts at 50% less than IH replacements for their old IH's.

Here's the "first day home" shot. $6500 with bush hog, delivered by a friendly coworker who also happened to be a truck mechanic that works on boom trucks, so he has extensive experience with hydraulics, and diesel stuff. "Someone" /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif seems to be looking out for me. It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.

 

[knucklehead]

Here's another shot - front if you want to compare grille, etc.

 

[JohnMiller3]

Good morning Mark...

I can't read the writing on the rotary cutter... but is that a Ford labeled unit...?

KingKutter has OEM'd them for Ford in the past... and that's what that one looks like... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[knucklehead]

Here's my tag - the engine number is LE892-35704. That is also on the engine block below the starter on the left - cast in about 1/2" high letters. The numbers start with M732, then below that, LE892 - 1272cc, then below that, on a small cast boss, stamped in about 1/4" letters, 35704, which is probably the engine serial number.

As you can see, my serial plate says Ford, then Model F-1700, then Serial #U-701034. I could not find that number anywhere on the tractor as a casting. I think Ford applied it once it got here. I think the tractor was built for Ford overseas.

I looked around the tractor, and found the following:

Alternator: Hitachi - no other markings visible except the Field, Ground, and Positive markings.

Starter: Hitachi - lots of serial numbers and model numbers - hard to read - I'll ink them if you need them.

Injector Pump: Diesel "kiki" Assembly # 4302-419. Then NP-PES2K70C210RS2N2. There's also a stamped number, proabably a serial number, which I can ink if you want to go farther with this.

Castings (all about 1/2" high):
Under serial plate: "S" (with a circle around it), and M330 1

Below PTO lever on left, ahead of Differential assembly: 78 10 17, then below that, "S" (circled) and M340

On Hydraulic casting, on left (under seat): M100-3, then below that, 225

On Differential area (Bull gear housing? Brake linkage goes in there) on right: 79 02 07 (also on left, down underneath)

On bellhousing section between engine and trans on right side: 111, then below that, 54-126, then below that, M090-2

I wouldn't be afraid of the tractor itself. I'd temper that with the "story" and the dealer - his attitude, shop appearance, etc. I'd be interested in learning more about that tractor, if you pursue it, just to learn the similarities/differences with the Ford.

 

[knucklehead]

Hi, John

The cutter is "L&S Line". The original owner has a PHD from them, too. He found a dealer here in Maine, and liked the overall quality, and the fact that they were blue - don't know about color selection, but I plan on calling to get a manual, if available. I'd appreciate a critique, as I have not heard of them. It's a shear pin unit, not a slip clutch (if that's the right term). I spent time photgraphing it because I firgured I'd be talking about it soon - been busy working on shift, and residing/replacing windows in this great weather, so not using the tractor lately. I spent 6 hours one day cutting grass and brush (2" poplar) a couple weeks ago - it worked great, but I got whacked in the back of the seat by something once, so I'm wondering about guards. A friend with a 3010 Kubota and lots of experience 'hogging and tilling told me to plan my work so I was cutting with the long stuff on the left, because the hog throws right - what a great suggestion (Thanks, Dana, if you're lurking)- the grass was chopped and dispersed well.

I'll follow this with a couple other pictures.

 

[knucklehead]

Here's a touched-up shot (brightened). I should mention, although your vernier eyelashes probably already measured it, that it is a 5-foot unit.

 

[knucklehead]

Here's what's important.

 

[Soundguy]

Thanks for the great info. So far everything looks right, except the grill and headlight placement. If you have your tractor available, can you take a picture of the front wheel drive section where it actually couples to the wheel. On this unit, it is some sort of large ball and socket joint with a 1/4" think speroid bushing sealing the internals. Looks interesting, but i've never seen the front final drive of another '1700' to compare it to.

All in all, the machine looked and sounded great. In low gear, there was some 'gear whine" like you would here from big gear reduction.. but no drinding, or play. Wasn't audible in higher gears.

Oh, sorry to keep making requests here, but you are a good resource, as you have a comparison model. If you can take pictures, could you get a shot of the alternator area, and also, the right side an engine shot, kinda above the starter, and right of the injector pump?
thanks for all the help you have already provided.

Soundguy

<font color=blue>I wouldn't be afraid of the tractor itself. I'd temper that with the "story" and the dealer - his attitude, shop appearance, etc. I'd be interested in learning more about that tractor, if you pursue it, just to learn the similarities/differences with the Ford.

 

[knucklehead]

Oddly enough, I was gonna give you the knuckle photo, but I took a minute to talk to John. I'll have to go get a digital camera to shoot the engine, which I should be able to do today. I have also scanned in the specs from my book, but I'm playing around with resolution - I don't like the way it comes out when printed at 75 dpi. I tried 200 dpi, but the thing thinks it's 11x17 when printed - even though it "says" 8.5x11 when I view it in my Adobe program.

Anyway, here's the knuckle. Mine's like the one you describe - like the old jeeps and early 4wd trucks.

 

[knucklehead]

BTW, my starter, alternator, and exhaust are on the left (right/left convention is sitting on tractor looking forward), and the injector pump is on the right. Does the tractor have ROPS? The previous owner added one, shipped from CA for $1000 including shipping. We've talked about that before, and if you search on it, and visit the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=buildit&Number=165749&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=rops%20for%20ford%201700&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=50&Old=allposts&Main=165749>ROPS for Ford 1700</A> thread, you'll find a picture of a homemade unit. I'll put the pic of my ROPS attachment on next for comparison.

 

[knucklehead]

Here's my ROPS attachment. Gotta go do errands, get camera, etc., so I'll see you either tonight or tomorrow - gotta move a pianny for some friends tonight and consume red meat afterwards.

 

[Soundguy]

Well, All in all, everthing sounds right. This unit has no rops, but then it is an early 80's model. I soppose an aftermarket grill assembly could have been used to 'refurbish' the unit, Si I guess it really is a ford 1700.

Soundguy

<font color=blue>Oddly enough, I was gonna give you the knuckle photo, but I took a minute to talk to John. I'll have to go get a digital camera to shoot the engine, which I should be able to do today. I have also scanned in the specs from my book, but I'm playing around with resolution - I don't like the way it comes out when printed at 75 dpi. I tried 200 dpi, but the thing thinks it's 11x17 when printed - even though it "says" 8.5x11 when I view it in my Adobe program.

Anyway, here's the knuckle. Mine's like the one you describe - like the old jeeps and early 4wd trucks.

 

[JohnMiller3]

Yes... that "L & S" is a relabeled KingKutter rotary cutter... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Mark, you may want to check the torque on your "right" blade bolt/nut assy (as shown in your picture)... you shouldn't be able to move the blade in a vertical motion virtually any appreciable amount... (KK specifies ~~300 ft.lbs... on mine I always had them about 500-600 ft.lbs.)

 

[knucklehead]

Relabeled KingCutter? So I should look for KingCutter info? Does the "King" part have anything to do with that "little fishy" on the label? Hmmmmm?

You're saying this about the right bolt because it looks like the blades is kinda hanging down, ain't you? I had to go eagle-eye that photo, too. I'll check it, but it looks like it's just an illusion, upon further eagle-eyeing /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif.

Thanks for the info - you mention KingCutter a lot - do you like them? I also remembered he had an L&S rake, and I'm not sure the PHD was L&S, now that I think of it.

 

[knucklehead]

I dunno how to "verify" it as Ford...all I know is how mine looks. Could be that they were the same, and Ford had a bunch of them sent to the US. They could have done Fords, then Sheboooms (never can spell Shibaura right), or they could done them all at once, and sent some over in one direction to be labeled as Ford and have Egrish decals stuck on them.

Anyhoo, here's a few photos as you requested.

 

[knucklehead]

Bottom left

 

[knucklehead]

Right side - injector pump.