FORD 2N

[DWDIGGER]

Just pulled her out of the field after four year nap, new battery new plugs, how do i know if she getting spark n

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

take a plug out and let it lay on the head.....see if it sparks.....

 

[wwalkersd]

Head over to the N Tractor Forum on Yesterday's Tractor. The experts there can get anybody's N tractor running!

 

[oregunbota]

About 15 years ago I had an 8n with the 6volt system. I used to have trouble getting it started after every winter and got some advice from an older friend that had a 9n. Make sure your battery is charged and always clean the points. The contacts on the points will get oxidation on them when not in use and the battery having only 6 volts won't sometimes conduct through the oxidation. Doesn't take much to clean them. Some very fine sand paper or the striking surface on a matchbook. Always worked for me.

 

[Soundguy]

Be kind to her.. put a lil atf fluid. or mmo oil intot he cyls.. say a couple tablespoons each. and let it set for a day, then pull the plugs and run her over to expell any excess oil, then clean and gap the plugs at .025 and then clean and gap points at .015 and let her rip.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Doesn't take much to clean them. Some very fine sand paper or the striking surface on a matchbook. Always worked for me.

Sanding or filing points should be reserved as a last ditch effort.. both methods remove the hard protective coating onthe points and leaves the softer base metal that will corode and pit much faster.

IMHO.. coarse paper.. like grocery sack.. or heavy white typing apper is a good enough ... if it is more coroded then that.. then file them. and just be prepaired to replace them sooner or later.

soundguy

 

[Stimw]

You can sand, file or grind ignition points as long as they still have tungsten on them. You can easily see the tungsten and the silver solder that holds it onto the base or arm. I use a die grinder and just dust them off. You need to clean them with contact cleaner if you have some and you can and NEVER touch the tungsten. The oil from your skin will contaminate them.
I had a 8-N and a 9-N and both were converted to 12V. With the 6V starter they always started easy. They sell 12V coils for them, they cost the same as 6V. I had a bad alternator on one and it would run up to two hours on a good 12V battery.
I would love to kick the idiot who put the distributor on the front of the engine! I've had too many cut knuckles from the radiator fins while messing with the ignition.

 

[Stimw]

Almost forgot, MAKE SURE you have oil pressure! Do this by cranking and taking an oil line loose. They are notorious for loosing the oil pump prime and it usually happens from sitting too long. I always ran 30W oil and STP and never had a problem plus it boosted the oil pressure about 10lbs when hot.

 

[Soundguy]

You can sand, file or grind ignition points as long as they still have tungsten on them. .

Most newer points today have very little contact metal.. I have seen tisco points that almost look electroplated that have so little media on them.. Better points like standard ignition / bluestreak DO have more material.. but cost more as well.. IE.. 18$ vs 4$ tisco jobs.. etc.. Most people grab the cheap ones...

I would love to kick the idiot who put the distributor on the front of the engine! I've had too many cut knuckles from the radiator fins while messing with the ignition.

Ya might want to rethink who's the idiot here.

Ford put 2 big bolts holding that front distribuitor to the block.. spin those out then the entire ditrib comes off.. just pop the bail and the cap clamps and leave the coil and cap/wires ont he tractor and the distrib comes out without touching the fan or the radiator!

replace the oints and condensor and static time it on your bench in about 5 minutes, and then reinstall it.. might take 10 minutes total if you are real slow.. or have a long walk from your bench to the tractor...

distribuitor is offset tang driven from the cam, so there is no real way to seat the distribuiror properly, and be out of time... just hand fit it and put the 2 bolts in loosely, and rotate the rotor with yuor finger till the offset drive drops in, and then take the bolts down.

If yer knuckles are geting into the rad fins.. yer doing something wrong!

soundguy

 

[Stimw]

I stand by my post! Anyone who thinks that was a good placement for the distributor is also an idiot. If it was so outstanding then why did ford change it in the last years before they discontinued the whole engine?
Removing two bolts that can turn 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn at a time was also real smart. Also putting the distributor down low where it gets all dirt and trash coming through the radiator. And then there is all the water that gets to it when it is running in the rain. Who would not want a fan sucking water in on their ignition system?
I might have seen one set of points out of one hundred that I could not resurface and place back in service. You must be buying the cheap sets that I would not waste my time with.

 

[Soundguy]

I never said that they were totally unuseable if filed.. i said they had reduced life.

The ford front mount distrib survived from 39 thru 50.

It wasn't a bad design. I have one.. as do many people.. you mintain them and use proper gaskets.. and they work. They are as water 'resistant' as a common side mount if you use the correct gaskets.

The 2 hold down bolts are -EZ- to get to with common tools and turn way more than 1/4 to 1/3 turn at a time.

The reason, IMHO, that ford got away from that design was 2 fold. one, to get away from the square coil to a more common round coil, and to move away from the 'hard breathing' flattys to the ohv engine.

as with anything in life.. if you had problems with it. the 'the grapes were sour'.

thousands of ford owners have the frontmounts with no more problems than any other typical unit of the day.

IMHO.. having a distrib that can be pulled and repalced with no problem of timing issues is / was a great idea.

Sorry you had difficulty servicing yours and now feel they were sour grapes.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

The reason, IMHO, that ford got away from that design was 2 fold. one, to get away from the square coil to a more common round coil, and to move away from the 'hard breathing' flattys to the ohv engine.

Well, you gota admit that the L heads were not the most efficient engine. Changing out the basic Model A engine may not have been a bad Decision yes! Then again changing over to a different engine must be a completely different scenario is it not??

Round coil, square coil whats the difference as to location of the distributor?

[
as with anything in life.. if you had problems with it. the 'the grapes were sour'.

/QUOTE]

Fellow states particulars and all of a sudden its "Sour Grapes"

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

I don't understand all this bashing of good ole' Henry and his Flathead????

 

[Soundguy]

Round coil, square coil whats the difference as to location of the distributor?

There is a world of differenc ein the specialty square coils that ford used on the frontmounts, vs the more standard round can coils.

Biggest difference was that the square coil was really only about a 3.5v coil, and the tractor ran on 6v. A ballast resistor with a thermal coeficient was used so that the coil was actually seeing higher votls at cold startup to aid in ignition, then the resistor warmed up and it's resistance went up, reducing current thru the coil and points.

Any time you have extra parts, and extra connections.. you have extra places to have problems. the resistors had connections that could get dirty, the element itself was fragile and coroded.. the coil was not robust enough to run on straight 6v.. so when many shadetree mechanics bypassed the resistors, they started experiencing early coil failures.

the move to a more robust commonly used round can coil was a good decision. and as ford liked to use parts in many applications, not having a specialty coil only used on it's tractor was a bonus.

You must also look at the practical side of the square coil.. because the way it sets on the distribuitor, the primary side of the coil, going to the points is 'warded' and you can't get to it to make an electrical connection like for a tach / dwell / timing lamp. The round can coil has that connection available as the passthu wire to the distrib.

so yes.. the type of coil makes a big difference to the distribuitor.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

So that square coil was not a good design?

 

[Soundguy]

So that square coil was not a good design?

As far as coils go.. I think it was as good of quality as could be expected from 30's engineering. It became obsolete after about ? half a million units were sold.. not to bad a track record all in all. It worked.. but was limited. Realize that that design happened in 1938.. technology progressed quite a bit by the time the early 50's rolled in when ford went to the angle drive distribuitor for the tractor division.

Up until then, ford didn't even have a mark on the flywheel as a provision for a timing lamp. ( to go along with the square coil that you couldn't hook a timing lamp to anyway ).


As far as the distrib goes.. I don't mind them.. I actually like them.. due to their construction, you can static time the distrib with the distrib on your bench using a ruler and straigh edge...

With the advent of coil relocation kits by shade-tree hobbiests, and from pertronix, that allows you to use a regular round can coil on the front mount tractors, then they are as reliable and easy to work on as the angle mount.. you get the benefit of the EZ points replacement on your bench without loosing timing .. and you have the correct wire termnals needed for your timing light. al that is needed then is to put a replacement flywheel on with timing marks.. or make yor own with a scribe and some whiteout.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

Well, it surely sounds like the revisions to the original square coil were in order!

 

[Soundguy]

Well, it surely sounds like the revisions to the original square coil were in order!

As a convienience item, yes.. an upgrade will allow you to use things like timing lamps.. or different coils... again.. the coils were designed around a 3.5 v working voltage.. biggest problem today is people convert to 12v and don't add correct serial resistance and thus cause more problems by burning the coils up.

it don't help any that the coils are all now of asian origin.. and the QC there is horrible.

a buddy of mine that has a coil anylizer and myself, using lab grade test equipment.. we collected a bunch of samples of new production chinese produced '6v' square coils and tested them.. must have been 27 coils in the test...

had different ohm / impeadance readings on most of them!

that's a huge stumbling block to the average tractor owner who only has the option to buy an off the shelf 'conversion' resistor to make his coil happy. figure that resistor is only going to be suitable for about 1/3 of the 'tested' coils.. that leaves about another 3rd that are getting over current.. and another 3rd under current.. thus seeing intermittant early failures on some, and weak sparks on the others... not a great situation.. unfortunately.. with the supply of square coils pretty much solely from china.. not much to do.

that's one of the big reasons hobbiests went to home-made conversions using round couils and blank adapters.

I think if we still had the quality coils ford built back inthe late 30's and 40's.. even though we are talking older tech.. that people would have less ford front mount ignition problems in general... that goes for points to.

IMHO.. tisco points are not quality.. they have hard plastic rubbing blocks that melt and wear abnormally fast.... mind you they cost about 4$.. compaired to better quality blue strak or standard ignition parts than can cost 16-22$ per set.. but are much better in quality.


so yeah.. lots of factors here.. a 'stiff' design that worked on a narrow band of technology and qc that has now been left behind in time.. couple that with age ont he machines, and with the overall realative advances we have in technology now.. and all in all.. I think the old machines are doing as well as can be expected.. especailly sinc ethe early front mounts are now turning 70 years old.

If I had to make a classification.. I'd call it a coil issue vs a distribuitor issue. as you can retrofit a more robust coil.. and the ignition issues greatly improve.

soundguy