Ford 3000 Diesel - won't turn over...stumped

[Truro411]

When I first went to look this tractor over at the local NH dealer it exhibited the exact issues I'm seeing today: Turn key, dash warning lamps light up, turn to start, they go out and nothing...no click, nada. I assumed bad battery or bad neutral switch. In either case, I left and went back a few days later. The sales guy said the mechanic came out and replaced the voltage regulator (!?). I could see under the hood there was a brand new NH battery.

So, bought it, brought her home, and have used her sporadically over the last month with no real issues. I've noticed once that the charge light was coming on partway but other times it wasn't. I've been meaning to go back and polarize the genny and check things out a bit better but haven't gotten to it yet. Every time I go out to start her she kicks over fine and comes to life instantly on barely one or two turns.

So Saturday I'm pulling bushes and trees out. The rear exhaust is killing me when I'm chaining up the base of a tree and I had a particularly bushy Hawthorne to crawl under so I shut her off. Once I was all chained up I climbed on, shoved in the fuel shutoff and turned the key. There was either a pop or a single weak oomph from the starter followed by silence.

In two days of troubleshooting I've gotten two more weak oomph sounds out of the starter and I'm stumped. Pull started her with the 8N yesterday to get her back to the garage and stop working in the field. The wife (who was the 3000 driver/clutch popper/brakeman) thought that was AWESOME! Me, not so much.

Here's some vitals:

Battery - reads 12.6-12.7 volts disconnected from or connected to the tractor. I've run it for six hours on a 2A charger and for 2 hours on a 12A charger...still nothing. Floats in the 13V area and eventually drops back down to 12.6-12.7. Can't honestly remember if it drops with the key on or not.

Along the way I've cleaned both ends of the battery cables and their respective terminals. Both buzz out at or near 0 ohms. The voltage drop across the pos cable is .1v (but it's not really working hard if the starter is not running)

I've taken a screw driver and jumped the solenoid bat term to the terminal coming from the key/neutral lockout (bypassed key switch and neutral switch) - nothing.

I've jumped bat term to the starter term - nothing, no spark, nada

I even briefly jumped bat term to neg term on starter - there was a snap but I'm not so sure it was a big as it ought to be with an 800-900CCA bat.

When I turn the key on the warning lights light up. If I pull the light switch out one stop the warning lights go nearly out and the dash light is barely lit.

With the key off and the light switch out one stop the dash light is bright. If I pull the switch out all the way the dash light pretty much dies and the head lights do not light.

Taking all of the above into account I am now, sort of, thinking bad battery. Perhaps the genny is not working at all. Soooo....plugged in my 500A booster pack. I would think that would give me at least some solenoid noise, but nothing. Lights still behave the same way.

So, I'm lost somewhere between bad solenoid or starter and bad battery, with a side order of bad genny. And I'm out of ideas.

It FO31 manual is on its way from amazon.ca but in the mean time if anyone has the good wiring diagram from it I would really appreciate it. I'm very interested in the pinouts of the Lucas solenoid...can't seem to find anything online about it and there is a fourth terminal on it that's not connected to anything I'm curious about.

Any help?

 

[Soundguy]

lets troubleshoot now. the fo-31 won't help you much on the no start unless it ends up being a mechanical problem.

first. put volt meter on battery and try to turn her over. does she stasy at 12.6 or drop to like 5v?

if she stays, jiggle the range shifter lever.

if still nada.. have the wife bang onthe starter a bit with a hammer. don't get carried away.

post back

 

[SLHawkins]

Truro411,
I recently had the very same/similiar issue with my IH584, only I wasn't getting anything when I turned the key-no click, no lights, no slow turn nothing. Checked everything with the test light, replaced starter solenoid, replaced cables, charged and replaced battery, and even banged on the starter with a hammer - nothing. Bought a brand new solenoid and put on old starter-still nothing. Turned out to be the starter gone beyond repair. I was able to find a reman starter with solenod on ebay for less than I paid for just new solenoid. I replaced the starter and am now good to go. I recommend having a shop take a look at your starter. That may be your culprit.
Hawk

 

[DieselMonk]

bang on the starter with a hammer.

 

[Truro411]

Solved!

Sorry I didn't get back to you SG, as well as you others, with the troubleshooting. Work has kept me busy.

I got to thinking about how a seemingly good, fully charged battery could not simultaneously light my dash as well as the warning lights with no voltage drop at the battery and came to the conclusion that the problem was not a lack of available current but rather something preventing current flow. All things on the positive side of the circuits buzzed out clean, as did the ground strap. The only thing between the positive side and ground is the starter itself.

So I moved the ground strap from the terminal on the starter to the the top starter bolt on the bell housing. When I turned the key on I could see the warning lights in bright afternoon sun....that's new. I pulled the head lights on and no change to the warning lights. A quick check and the headlights were on bright.

Moment of truth...clutch, neutral, neutral, start. Eureka! Sweet diesel detonation!

Somehow the stud on the starter can become bad, but still pass a tiny amount of current causing the symptoms I was seeing.

I spoke to the mechanic that came out to fix it on the lot and he was puzzled as well. He had replaced the battery (original was definitely bad). He also said when he started it the regulator was bad so he replaced it too. I mentioned the bad ground theory and he suggested the move to the starter bolt (and a quick google found Soundguy suggesting the very same thing). I suspect the regulator issue was actually caused by this.

Anyway, charge light didn't come on on my drive around the field or while pulling out one tree for good measure. Also my fuel gauge, which previously floated from below a quarter to a half tank, now shows a solid 3/4 tank with no variation.

Battery shows 13.5 volts at 1000RPM and drops to 13.1 at idle and off.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. on many of my tractors I have a ground right to the starter. even if I keep the oem ground strap I add one to the starter. I found a cable at the auto store that was a ground clamp that actually had 2 cables on it. I like those types.. work great..

glad you found it,.

 

[Truro411]

Yup...it's a load off my mind. This one was really driving batty and stressing me out. Now back to the minor stuff.


Thanks!

 

[SLHawkins]

Good to hear it was just a grounding problem and not the whole starter. Happy Tractoring!

Hawk