Ford 3930 bad input shaft bearing?

[Bumblebeer]

I have a Ford 3930 that will occasionally make a grinding noise in neutral with the clutch engaged (pedal out). It doesn't make this sound every time, maybe once every 5 times I lift the clutch pedal. It doesn't seem to make the sound when in gear or with the clutch disengaged (pedal depressed), only when idling in neutral with clutch pedal lifted. Also, If it's making a sound I can apply a bit of throttle and it will stop.

This seems to me like the input shaft bearing is starting to go out. I'd like to get some opinions on this before I put in the work to split the tractor. Thanks!

Forgot to mention, this is a 8F2R "crash box" style transmission.

 

[JC-jetro]

I have a Ford 3930 that will occasionally make a grinding noise in neutral with the clutch engaged (pedal out). It doesn't make this sound every time, maybe once every 5 times I lift the clutch pedal. It doesn't seem to make the sound when in gear or with the clutch disengaged (pedal depressed), only when idling in neutral with clutch pedal lifted. Also, If it's making a sound I can apply a bit of throttle and it will stop.

This seems to me like the input shaft bearing is starting to go out. I'd like to get some opinions on this before I put in the work to split the tractor. Thanks!

Forgot to mention, this is a 8F2R "crash box" style transmission.

Do you mean clutch release bearing? the input shaft going through transmission case does have a bearing (ball bearing ) and then an oil seal. I think your issue is with the release bearing thhat is mounted on release fork to push the clutch pressure plate in to release the friction disk from flywheel. The symptom you are describing is in line with bad or dried out bearing. Those bearings are permanently greased and sealed. The only cure for that is to split the tractor and change the bearing and while there might as well change the clutch. The only good thing is it cannot damage anything else but the bearing and pressure plate fingers and in a case of tractor split they all need to be replaced anyway.

 

[Bumblebeer]

Yes, that makes more sense. I was thinking about older Ford's without the pto oil clutch. This'll be my first time splitting a 3930, but I'll still consider this good news. Means I'll only have to split instead of removing the tran too.

 

[JC-jetro]

Unfortunately that's is most probable reason. Do yo have issue with traction? clutch disk slipping? Have you ever done clutch pedal adjustment? if the release bearing consonantly touching the finger it would wear out the beaing/fingers but the noise would be constant. if your case clutching initiates the noise giving reason to believe clutch pedal adjustment is good and only make noise when it touches the fingers of the pressure plate. One good thing is that at least it will not damage anything else and it is not very urgent repair. Who knows , it might even work for a good while before it becomes necessary to repair. just a suggested kit below, don't know how it compares with NH oem stuff. My buddy bought the same brand for his 50 hp deere and served him well.

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[Harry in Ky]

No, that does not make sense. A bad or failing throw out bearing will make noise when IN use (pedal down or partially down). With pedal up, the bearing is out of play and will most likely be silent.

If your statements are correct, the throw out bearing is not the problem.

 

[JC-jetro]

No, that does not make sense. A bad or failing throw out bearing will make noise when IN use (pedal down or partially down). With pedal up, the bearing is out of play and will most likely be silent.

If your statements are correct, the throw out bearing is not the problem.

you might re read what I said. I said exactly what you are saying. I only said if the clutch free play is not adjusted correctly and throw out bearing is constantly riding on the pressure plate fingers then the noise is constant and that is a fact if the bearing is bad.

 

[Bumblebeer]

Well, the tractor is split.

I just took over maintenance for this tractor. My dad has been using it for the last 10+ years with nothing but oil changes and fluid top offs, and yes it has a loader... Thankfully, I convinced him it was time to get it into the shop.

The clutch pedal was very bad out of adjustment. Instead of ~1-2" of free play, it had around 6-8"! At that setting, the clutch would not fully disengage. Depressing the clutch pedal would stop the tractor, but the gears would keep spinning and would grind if you tried to shift. Adjusting the clutch to the correct amount of free play fixed the gear grinding issue.

The T/O bearing spins freely, but has a bit of click to it. Maybe a damaged race? It'll be replaced in any case along with the clutch and pressure plate. There does seem to be a bit of resistance spinning the outer (drive gear PTO shaft) from the bell housing end. I still wonder if there may be an issue with the input bearing.

Pictures for your viewing (dis)pleasure.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Our 4630 has been mak8ng that same loud noise for 26years now. I probably should look into it. Some bearing may be going bad. My dad and I used it and a TL80a to pull out my brothers 5610 4x4 caged out logging tractor. I thought I heard a noise.

 

[JC-jetro]

Excellent Pictures. I think what has happened is due to mis adjustment of free play (too far rather too close) when you clutch all the way it could not separate friction disk from surface of the flywheel and the pressure plate cleanly and as a result it kept spinning parts (flywheel and pressure plate) against stopped or slow spinning friction disk an wore it it that manner long strands of friction material (asbestos or non-asbestos) came ff. Out of abundance of caution you might consider those ACM (Asbestos Containing Material) and not breath it in and just wet wipe with brake cleaner and dispose the rag in a bag and then tied off. Those are nasty stuff for your lungs. I was saying you might have a bit of time but I guess it passed that by a long time. As they say, it is cost of doing business and clutch is a wear item. it appears that you have dual stage clutch,live PTO. is that correct? Well, I am glad you'll be back in business soon. Great pictures again.

 

[Bumblebeer]

Glad you liked the pictures. I figured if I'm getting good advice for free the least I can do is my part to be helpful.

Good call on the ACM. To the best of my knowledge this tractor was manufactured in '93, so those clutch filings are probably pretty nasty. I had planned on doing all appropriate ppe as soon as the tractor was split, but I couldn't resist getting the clutch off first. Appropriate precautions will be taken when cleaning and refitting.

To answer your question, no this is not a dual clutch. The pto clutch is fully independent, hydraulically engaged. It's located rear of the trans and operated with a single external lever. Also, I was incorrect in my earlier post. The hollow shaft bonded to the flywheel through the clutch housing is the PTO. That's the one that seems a little rough when spun by hand. The inner drive shaft seems fine. Maybe an issue with the PTO clutch?

Either way I'll get the drive clutch replaced and tractor put back together. If the noise is still there I guess I'll split at the rear of the trans and try to see what's going on.