Ford 4500 Industrial, Wont start

[Grimspyder]

Hello,
Hoping to get some assistance in starting my tractor.
I recently put a new CAV pump and injectors on my backhoe which has been sitting for over 3years.
I have been trying to start it for the past couple of days, and it doesn't want " To Go". It seems like its on the verge of starting, It will get the speed up like it is beginning to start, Ill get black smoke from the exhaust, Some white smoke (probably from the starter fluid, I have always have had to use starting fluid, when starting cold).
I am using a heat gun to push hot air into the intake when I try to start it.
I have bleed the the fuel system a few times.

1. I loosen he lines at the injectors,
2. I get all the air out of the filter,
3. Then open the bleed screw on the CAV pump, once i get a solid stream from the bleed screw, close it,
4. Then start tightening the injector lines one by one as the bubbles go away.

Then I attempt to start it. I have two 850amp batteries in parallel that 100% charged. So it turns over no issues.
But it wont start up. The pictures I have attached are just to show how I have it set up and how I think everything goes.

What do I have wrong? and what should I be doing?


I did a compression test a few months ago and the compression seemed fine. I do not remember the numbers exactly but they were within specs. I had previously filled the cylinders with transmission fluid while the old injectors where out and it sat like that for months and the fluid didn't really leak past the rings, very small amount.

I got help on a different post with which which CAV pump to buy ( More info there if it matters )

Fuel Pump?

Hello everyone, I hope you guys can help me figure out an issue I am having. I need to know which fuel pump I need to buy. (Very long story, Short) I have a Ford 4500 Industrial Backhoe and I had hired a mobile diesel mechanic to get the tractor started ( I couldn't figure it out, and no longer...

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[TractorTech]

Two things on you pictures. First, you blocked the side line from the pump to the filter head, why? Second, and it may not make a difference, is your 'return from the injectors' plumbed into the filter head should go to your tank from the #3 injector and that port on the head plugged. There is not line on this system for the leakoff line to be tied to the injection pump, unless you have a port (can't tell from your picture) on the back side of the injection pump on the top front. It it does have a port there, then that is plumbed to the injector leakoff line on the #1 injector.

If you are cranking the motor over with that much battery and your cables/connections are good and you are using a heat gun to warm the intake air, then you shouldn't need or use ether. If the engine is sound like you say from your compression tests, then you don't need ether. It sounds to me like you may have a timing problem. To start, have you varied the timing on the pump to if it makes a difference? Meaning, loosen the 3 bolts that hold it on the timing cover and move it, I believe clockwise, looking at the back of the cover?

Where did you buy your injectors? The injectors may be set wrong.

 

[Harry in Ky]

I agree it doesn't look like you have any return lines open on the pump, and (possibly) none leading back to tank. That's a starting point.

While timing could be suspect, after market replacement parts are even more so. Personally, it would take some major coercion to get me to purchase a new "replacement" pump from any source.

 

[Grimspyder]

Thank you for the replies.

• "blocked the side line from the pump to the filter head", It is like that because, after the first day of it not starting with it open, I clamped the line closed. I think I remembered that it originally had a block off plate, and some searching on the internet showed other similar pumps having that blocked off.
• "return from the injectors' plumbed into the filter", The line did originally go to a " splitter valve " that went to the tank. But the tank is extremely rusty inside ( currently it is filled with white vinegar ) and I have a small tank feeding the filter. I do not think it has a return port on the pump.

This is the injector set I bought, it says it fits a ford 4500:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BYRW1VLK?psc=1

And I had no choice but to buy replacement parts. Since someone needed them more than me I guess (details in the other post).

I am not sure why I didn't think about moving the pump to adjust the timing. Ill try that here in a little bit. Thank you.

 

[TractorTech]

The 'splitter valve' is a reservoir for the Thermostart manifold heater. It doesn't need to be part of the temporary system, but the leakoff line does go back to the/a tank.

Those injectors may be correct, but may be adjusted wrong. What is the actual injector number?

 

[Harry in Ky]

Many DPA pumps do indeed have a plate on the side where this one has a fitting. They also have a dedicated return line with a restrictor fitting of one sort or another on the pump body which this one does not. There needs to a path for fuel to escape the pump so case pressure is present but not excessive. Right now I don't think you have that. Is that the reason it won't start? I can't say, but if it were my project I would work on that next before condemning anything.

 

[thepumpguysc]

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A RETURN..
The timing is set to “0”..
Set the pump timing line to 0* on the block.,

Did u put the top oring UP IN THE FILTER HEAD..
It looks like it goes ON THE FILTER, BUT IT DOESNT GO THERE..
It goes up in a groove in the filter head..

If all else fails, plumb the side fuel return back to your temp tank..

 

[Grimspyder]

I'm not sure what the injector number is. I do not remember seeing one when I looked at them. You wouldn't by chance know what pressure they are suppose to open?

The return line had just been a line going from the injectors back to the tank. The only lines on the pump went from the filter to the pump, and the injector lines. At least that is what i remember. I had a bunch of pictures when I took it all part a year ago, but the phone that it was on no longer works.

I set the pump timing to 6deg advanced. I think, I moved it counter clockwise. It acts like it wants to start with ether, and it starts to push black smoke. But it wont go.

I'm going to do another compression test, and see if I was wrong on the compression.
This is so frustrating!

 

[Grimspyder]

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A RETURN..
The timing is set to “0”..
Set the pump timing line to 0* on the block.,

Did u put the top oring UP IN THE FILTER HEAD..
It looks like it goes ON THE FILTER, BUT IT DOESNT GO THERE..
It goes up in a groove in the filter head..

If all else fails, plumb the side fuel return back to your temp tank..

The pump was at "0", I just moved it to 6deg counter clockwise.

I swapped out the filter with a new one, I reused the orings that where in there since they didn't fallout. I know that isn't the right thing to do. But it wasn't leaking, and I didn't want to question if I had screwed that up.

Are you saying that the pump its self needs to have a return?
The injectors have a return going to the tank.

Ill make that change and try it again.

Thanks again everyone for the help.

 

[thepumpguysc]

When u put the pump in, did u put the master tooth (cut out) on the dowel pin in the gear.??
I “thought” it was fool proof until a guy sent me a picture where he put his pump on and tightened the bolts..& pushed the dowel pin thru the gear.!!
Is your side cover on the pump a pressurizing return.?
If yes, u have to have it returning to the tank/ filter head.
If the fuel isn’t going out, how do u expect fuel to get in.?