Ford 4500 TLB Flywheel and Clutch Assembly Problem

[Robsinno1]

I need some help figuring out what to do about the pressure plate and clutch installation on my 1973 Ford 4500 Industrial TLB without PTO. Engine is a 3 cylinder 201 diesel. It has a 6x4 manual trans with an 11" single clutch assembly. I took the flywheel to NAPA to have it turned, and when I got it back, the entire flywheel had been cut evenly all the way across, eliminating the outer diameter step that the pressure plate mounts to. I know there are other Ford tractors that come with spacer shims between the pressure plate and the flywheel, but they are only available for specific models in specific sizes. The 6 pressure plate mounting bolts are 3/8" -16 x .96" with a shoulder length of approximately 1/2". With the clutch disk and pressure plate installed and bolts snugged to where the bolt shoulder hits the top of the threaded holes in the flywheel, the gap between the flywheel surface and the bottom of the pressure plate mounting feet is approximately .2 (or 200 thousandths).

1. Would making /using 3 two-hole spacers be an acceptable solution considering the mounting step has been cut off of the flywheel?

2. Would the flywheel be out of balance as a result?

3. Does anyone have thickness measurements for flywheel part # (E0NN6375FA) at the outer pressure plate mounting step and at the inner clutch disk area OR does anyone know the difference between the two measurements (height of the step)?

4. If I can稚 get measurements for the flywheel, my thought was to use spacers about .020 thicker than the gap between the flywheel surface and the bottom of the mounting feet so that the pressure plate is tight against the flywheel, but does not create excessive separation from the flywheel surface.

5. Is there a way to check clutch setup /adjustment by measuring the gap between the clutch and flywheel or pressure plate by simulating the clutch being depressed without reassembling the tractor? If so, what should the gap be?

It has been very difficult to find specific information for this problem. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[joecdeere]

owner Of machine shop owes you a replacement, no excuse for having someone with no clue running equipment

 

[Robsinno1]

I was able to get more information from several tractor dealers around the country today, several of which had the same flywheel, new or used. One of the dealers even sent photos of a new one they had still in the crate. It turns out this flywheel is not made with a step for the pressure plate. Apparently, years of use with ceramic clutch disks wore the flywheel down so much that it appeared to have a step. The disk area was a little wavy, which is why I had it turned, but there were no deep grooves, so I don't think it took more than .020" to clean it up. The problem I have now is that the flywheel was worn (and is now cut) past the recommended limit of .080" (according to the original service manual). I estimate a total of about .200". The thing that is a little confusing is I had changed the clutch about 2 years ago and it worked fine until I ran out of adjustment due to the pad material wearing down. So even though the disk area of the flywheel was probably worn down to around .180" before having it turned, it seemed to work fine. I figured I'd give it a shot, since the cheapest new flywheel I can find is $1250 and even a used flywheel is $500.
Does anyone know if clutch disks with thicker pads are available?

 

[LouNY]

If your just trying to get by and the only concern is the bolt body hitting the surface of the flywheel,
throw a flat and lockwasher under the bolt head.
Was the flywheel bored for the bolt shank originally?

 

[3Lfarms]

I am wondering why shorter bolts couldn’t be used? Does the throw out bearing have enough travel to engage the extra .200”?

 

[Robsinno1]

If your just trying to get by and the only concern is the bolt body hitting the surface of the flywheel,
throw a flat and lockwasher under the bolt head.
Was the flywheel bored for the bolt shank originally?

My concern about the shoulder of the bolts was that it would not allow the bolts to screw all the way down into the bolt hole, which would not allow the pressure plate to sit flush against the flywheel surface, leaving a .200" gap between the flywheel surface and the bottom of the pressure plate mounting feet. The pressure plate mounting holes were originally unthreaded for the first 1/4" or so of the top of the holes, which allowed the shoulder of the original bolts to go into the holes deep enough for the pressure plate to sit down on the flywheel. After having the flywheel cut, the smooth unthreaded top portion of the bolt holes was removed, which created the current problem. Now that I've learned that the flywheel was not originally stepped, the problem with the bolts is easily resolved by replacing the original bolts with new grade 8 fully threaded bolts that don't have a shoulder. But, that still doesn't resolve the issue of the flywheel being cut well beyond the recommended limit of .080" (see the updated explanation in post number 3).

 

[Robsinno1]

I am wondering why shorter bolts couldn’t be used? Does the throw out bearing have enough travel to engage the extra .200”?

I may have to use shorter bolts depending on how deep the threaded holes are, but in either case I'll use fully threaded bolts without shoulders so I can pull the pressure plate all the way down to the flywheel surface. My main concern at this point is exactly what you mentioned about the throw out bearing having enough travel to compensate for the flywheel being worn /cut about .120" past its recommended limit of .080". I don't know of any way to check that without assembling the tractor and adjusting the linkage. My initial thought is, since it was working (before the pads wore down to nothing) prior to dissembling the tractor, even though the pressure plate is now going to be about .200" further from the throw out bearing, the new clutch disk with fresh pads should make up for close to that amount. So my current clutch linkage adjustment should be pretty close with the new clutch disk. I think the real issue is going to be whether or not I will continue to be able to successfully adjust the linkage as the new clutch wears.

 

[RickB]

I have seen instances where it was necessary to shorten the clutch rod and cut some new threads on it.

 

[3Lfarms]

Is it possible to remove the flywheel and add a .200” shim between the crank and flywheel?
That should compensate for the removed material.

 

[Robsinno1]

Is it possible to remove the flywheel and add a .200 shim between the crank and flywheel?
That should compensate for the removed material.

I know crank to flywheel shims are not uncommon for some engines, but I don't know what effect that may have on crank bearings or the rear main seal or starter drive engagement on the ring gear. I can't seem to find any information for using them on heavy equipment engines. As far as I can tell, no one makes crank to flywheel shims for a 201 (3 cylinder) diesel with 6/4 manual trans and 11" clutch assembly. I'm sure a local machine shop can make one.
I'm now leaning toward trying to shim the throw out bearing. My concern with that is the collar part of the hub that the bearing is pressed onto is only about 3/8" tall, so even a 1/8" shim only leaves 1/4" of collar for the bearing to press onto. I thought about using some loctite on the collar if I decide to try it.